I think you are right on, and wise doing that.

I just wanted to separate for thread/discussion sake that there are exercises that make riders go faster and those that do other things.

Good point. I am very interested in things that make me a faster cyclist. There is some good info above but eager to hear about more stuff that works in that regard.

Keep this quote in mind: Great sport begins where good health ends.

https://moz53.wordpress.com/2013/04/...d-health-ends/

At some point in your life, performance should take a back seat to overall health and fitness. The youngsters like Pepe and Doge's kid are not there yet. But those past their athletic prime, need to be thinking about their overall health. Each person has to decide when that time has come for them.

Some things about weightlifting that needs to be stressed. A weight lifting program without a corresponding muscle stretching program is an injury waiting to happen. That yoga class at the gym will help you just as much, if not more than the weight lifting. If you are going to strengthen one part of the body, you better strengthen the connecting parts as well. If you soup up a motor in a car without beefing up the rest of the drivetrain, that drivetrain is going to fail. Same for the body.

I love the quote. I do not think cycling at the top level (or many other sports) is healthier than not doing the sport. We've all see the retired sports pros in their 50s.

Your assessment in the 2nd section is correct, but you can have imbalance without injury. Especially in the legs being significantly stronger. If the rest of the body can't take the strain in a squat that the legs can deliver - don't do squats. That bothers a lot of people to say that.

The stretching is also something I don't see needed to avoid weigh lifting injury, or needed for cycling. I don't agree Yoga will do what heavy weights on a leg press will do for peaking the power meter.

In many crashes where the limber rider may fare better, but that again brings us to the earlier topic. It is better for total health, but maybe not for going faster.

Yes, running is good for bone density, mainly the legs and pelvis. And the conventional wisdom says otherwise but I think running makes me faster on the bike.

I mostly focus on the upper body when I lift. Don't want to ride with heavy legs.

About that quote, you see it everyday at the level your son is at. It's not the sport itself. It's all the training, nutrition, and other things that come with being an athlete at that level. Not an easy life and very hard on the body.

I mentioned the stretching/yoga as a general injury prevention measure. Cycling is a non weight bearing activity, so the chance of a muscular injury is low. The injury risk will come from the repetitive strain on the connective tissue. That's where the stretching will help. Now if you are talking about other sports, the injuries will occur without the stretching. They might still occur anyway. Specifically, (and not necessarily cycling related) weighted calf raises without the corresponding stretching will put the user in danger of Achilles and Planter Fasca injuries. The same can be said for the other joints, especially during an explosive movement.

As for squats, form is everything. Without proper form, there is a high risk for serious injury to the knee joint.

I think at this point in the thread there has been some very good info for the topic. Your info is coming from a very high level perspective with highly trained professionals and very cycling specific. Very good info. The average Joe wanting to start should seek out high level advice. Talk with a trained professional about their goals in starting a weight lifting program. Find out the exercises you need to do. More importantly, find out the proper way to do them. Do some assessment, then refine the program if needed. The problem with just "jumping in" is that you can do a lot of harm as well.

I've found stretching to be unnecessary when coupled with a well-executed weight training program. The program itself, with the lifts done for the full range of motion, will be plenty of stretching. That said - up until it isn't enough anymore. I had to start stretching at about 65, probably because all that stuff becomes less flexible as we age. I started running into bursitis issues which resolved with stretching. If one isn't having issues, there's good research which shows that stretching beyond the range of motion required by your sport can lead to injury, the opposite of what people think it will do.

Riffing off the above, certainly what is required for continued excellence in your sport will change with age. I see a lot of riders with back, nerve, and tendon issues. Most of those resolve with targeted weight and stretch training. For instance, I have acquired a tendency for impingement in my shoulders. I keep that at bay with a specialized exercise/stretch.

But sure, Caveat Emptor

Only Range of Motion needed for cycling, is the range used for cycling.
If knees never move past 90, or even 100, training them 70-90 means less force can be used, and there is no direct Cycling benefit.

Agree. A good warmup stressing form with the weights, is a a great way to get moving. Squats, I used just the bar. Deadlift a tad more, but getting the body aware of what's getting ready to happen, works well for me.

I did (me, not kid) the Super Slow/20 min workout whatever it is called now thing when I was also riding a lot.
One of the reasons the inventor gives for going so slow is it is almost impossible to injure yourself. It cost too much money and hurt too much, but it made the burn on the bike feel like nothing. I don't know if it made my 1 hour FTP better, we didn't talk like that then. But my tandem partner and I got a couple 1st bikes in some Baja fondos, which were essentially 2 hour TTs.

Seeing the heavy lifting lower reps my son was doing I questioned trainer about why not do something junior could go faster that simulated a sprint, like what my daughter did below for jumping. His answer was doing heavy weights you were going as fast as you could. That the max push/explosion - even if the weight moves slowly, is what builds the snap for cycling, and jumping was different.

Maybe OT, but on topic of purpose based lifting. A few years earlier getting my soccer daughter recruited was a goal. She was 5'6 (where recruiters like 5'9"+) so needed some leaping help. I wanted her to have an eye brow raising number to tell coaches - and I had video to back up her play. This video was when she just started using the machine, later she was using more weight - and looked better. This was the only use of weights or gym workout for her. It was difficult dealing with trainers and academics. They always had a program. My response was very direct - touch the highest tab on that leaping measuring pole thing. She used just this for a weights/machine* The ROM was tuned to what we wanted for jumping higher. Once in college they put all the kids on a formal weight program. Everything got slower, less explosive.

*There was other stuff, just not weights or machine.

Now you are getting into my territory! I was a basketball player. It is interesting that the fast/faster twitch base so much of their recruiting on pure athletic ability instead of player ability. Vertical jump, standing broad jump and some type of short sprint or shuffle such as a 40 yard dash. I guess the thinking is that you can turn an athlete into a better player but not the other way around.

Back to the topic at hand. IMO, adding some court sports conditioning drills to your workout would help with the topic of the thread. There are so many good variations, but they require some effort. I'll be honest. They require more effort than I want to put out at this point. But, if you are serious about it, you will reap the benefits.

Well I am a study-to-the test guy, then sell what they are buying, not what they need. If the coaches want to see vertical rather than clean sheets - give them vertical.

USAC is as bad as any. They select on power over placings. I've seen the more powerful selected over the better placings many times.

Those drills may make you faster too. But I'm not sure that if a rider had 10 hours/week I'd move 2 hours off the bike to 2 hours on the court. As I said - I would move 3 to gym (so now 7 hours on bike, 3 in gym) to get more FTP.

I hate weight lifting, but it has without doubt helped me over the years of racing.

I have not seen or experienced any increase in FTP, if measured in w/kg, probably even a slight reduction as lifting adds a little weight. Where I believe it helps is better endurance and a big improvement in racing performance due to added strength. FTP is great for a time trial, but in a bike race, especially a Crit, it is those short bursts of speed that will get you into a break, or let you hang in the bunch, or finally win the sprint.

You make an excellent point. When squatting, the idea is to move the weight up as fast as possible. Speed! is the word I use to coach myself. You want the bar to bounce at the top if you possibly can. It's the early part of the movement that's slow, but you're still pushing it as fast as you can. I can squat a little more if I focus on speed. Fiber recruitment, I think. Then sloooowww on the way down.

I'm starting my interval training this week, and will use some of the other info here....not necessarily the weight though I'l continue my usual regimen. This weekend, we stayed at 9300 feet and I rode up to ~11,000. I did around 65 miles and 4,750 feet. I found that this is basically my max at altitude...I was hurting during the last 10 miles. I'm hoping the info in this thread will help me prepare for my long ride at altitude (8,500-12,000)- 80 miles and 6,500 ft of climbing in early Aug. Right now, I doubt I could finish it without it becoming a survival type ride during the last 30 miles.