Aside from discussions about the best way to perform an FTP test (I just try to be consistent, use the 20 minute test), I'm toying with the idea of using some lower body work to supplement my cycling. Typically on the bike or the trainer 5-6 days a week. For those who have tried it, is it worthwhile to take time off the bike each week and instead do some lower body work to improve overall power?

I started weight lifting (full body) and lost several points from my cycling VO2max. I had to dedicate time to lifting which meant less time on the bike. Recovering from leg day hurt cycling performance. But I looked much better for it.

Cycling is not about leg strength, it's about aerobic capacity. There are one-legged cyclists who ride up mountain passes.

Weight lifting isn't going to help your threshold power....but if you are a sprint specialist then yes. Just like guys who run 100m spend just as much time in the weight room as they do on the track, but it does nothing for the guys who run 400m or longer.

These are two different systems. Although they are both important for a complete rider, improving one isn't going to do much to help the other.

Great feedback, thanks all!

This is uncanny--I was just thinking about this subject last night.

In the past year I've also been spending more time in the weight room; I've put on weight and bulked up all over, mostly by concentrating on deadlifts, squats, bench/shoulder presses.

I've noticed that I'm more explosive in accelerating than I used to be, particularly on climbs. But, I have also considered that time spent in the weight room is time you are not spending on the bike.

There is one aspect that I would like to throw up for additional discussion, though. Do y'all think that the extra bulk has a beneficial effect when you go down on the bike (i.e., crash)? I recently went down on a recent ride, and although I got some road rash, I can't help but think that the fact that I had a little extra muscle on my shoulders and pelvic area prevented me from getting injured.

It depends on what you're trying to do. If you're getting paid then FTP absolutely has to come first. You could experiment a bit with weights and see. I lift, but I don't lose any cycling time to do it. Weights and cycling work different systems. I always lift after cycling, though my schedule is to lift on non-interval days. For instance today I'll spend an hour on the rollers doing one-legged pedaling, then go to the gym. Since this is now my summer season, I only do 2 sets of 5, but I lift to my max on the second set.

For information about lifting when you're not getting paid, try this thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/training-n...e-athlete.html

I think CTS has more experience coaching cyclists than most of us do.

Yes, absolutely. Beyond any hint of doubt. It's like a shield, it'll bruise and hurt but it'll absorb a lot of impact and protect your bones.

No only that, weight lifting helps build bone density. Road cyclists are notorious for having very weak bones. The low impact nature of the sport allows bone density to fall. The greater bone density means your bones are less likely to break on impact.

As to the first question, many track racers - sprinters mostly - spend a lot of time in the weight room.

Yep. [MENTION=92828]topflightpro[/MENTION] is 100 % right.

Ever heard of the saying the bigger the come the harder they fall.

That's a great point. I guess cycling leaches calcium out of your bones or something like that?

What the coach I hired had both juniors do. 3X a week lift. It was very successful at shorter/mid distance.

Junior started lifting late age 14. He was a pretty strong kid and could leg press on the 45degree rack 500lbs. He weighed 130lbs. Coach said he'd be lifting close to 1000 in a year without gaining weight.

It didn't take a year. Mass stayed about the same, he went up 2-3 lbs.
I know it is the growing kid thing, but similar with another junior we suggested this coach to.
Both kids won the VOS selection TT in the 17-18 group which is about 30min.

You lose bone minerals through your sweat. And because road cycling is a low impact sport, it doesn't provide the stimulus for your bones to get stronger. For overall health cycling is great, but for bone mineral density it's worse than sitting on the couch. Lifting is great for stronger bones.

I can't do squats anymore because it would take minimum 3 days, usually 4 days to recover from *any* kind of weight work. Just sore and legs would not respond on the bike. So now I just do plyometric stuff like box jumps (built my own 20/24/30 box), skater jumps, scissor jumps, etc. Normally I can recover in a day and I feel much more lively on my feet. Hard to tell on the bike so much, because I don't do much Z6+ stuff, but sometimes I'll look down and be surprised at the power I'm doing (for short periods). If using weights is too hard on the legs, try doing some plyo stuff, it's harder than it seems, and has made me feel better.

Off season, it was 4 times a week with the weights. So weekdays it would be up at 4-4:30 am, do the weights, go to work, then at night, it was whatever bike workout that was on the plan. Weekends, it was weights early, then the ride later. By the third week, the 4.5 hour endurance ride was its own little slice of hell.

On season, no weights.

I'm not sure it's just sweating, because it takes a lot of training at high intensity to get the mineral loss from sweat (of the studies). But cycling seems to do it. Maybe the energy imbalance also has some impact.

True, no doubt.

I still do squats, not heavy, mind you, just about my own body weight on the bar, front and back squats. I find that when I don't do them regularly the DOMS are pretty bad, but when I do them once or twice week the quads don't get so sore. Strangely for me the DOMS don't affect my riding much once I get going. It's the running that is very uncomfortable.

So weird how that works. I can kill myself on a 12+ hour dayhike and can't walk normally for 3 days, but I get on the bike and will feel almost nothing. Still fatigued, but it's not painful like walking.

Regarding the weights, I started weightlifting long before I got into cycling, and I was doing leg stuff pretty regularly. For some reason, my body just doesn't do well after leg work. I would do heavy bench and upper body stuff and be sore for a day, but legs always took forever to get over. In any case, I've been doing the plyo stuff for about 6 months, and I'm still progressing, but the DOMS lasts much less time now, usually worse around the time I increase the workload. I do feel like it has benefited my riding, maybe not so much FTP, but I don't get that burning pain so easily when I "dial it up to 400 watts" for short periods.

Pulling out the old bragging dad video. But you can get an idea of the workouts.
The other two kids, became teammates and all Cat 1s.
https://vimeo.com/113033767

2 weeks later, one of the kids from the gym is leading out mine for Rogers Cup for a big annual OC Champion of the World win that has been going on since 1976. Cannondale World Tour rider, multiple time junior NC, current U23 NC and a few pros left behind.
They can't match the power @30 miles on the road.
At 100 miles, it is a completely different story. Weights and miles were the most significant thing he's done for double digit length races.
Since then his miles have gone up and power down. So, yea, racing 100+ mile races, I'm not so sure how much the weights help. I still think they do as muscle can be used as fuel (gross), but there is another aspect there.
The 3 kids working out in the gym together all experienced huge speed improvements.
https://vimeo.com/113856699

A comment (that went into pages on the -33). Squats are more full body. Form is more important.
You may not want that for improving cycling power.
You may want a range of motion that is closer to the pedal stroke, not what will make you look the best - in the gym or beach.

Many times I have seen cycling specific training be corrected by professional trainers. They just don't know and often think the lifter just does not know.
It is one of those things everyone is more happy to educate others on than just do.

While on a roll...the training I saw (and paid for), while 3 days a week, was rarely max effort. The next day was always for riding. Typical sets were 16 rep, 12 rep, 8 rep to finish (something left in the tank) 2-3 days and 12 reps, 8 reps 4 reps to failure on a heavy day that would be at most 1X a week in fall.
Combined with miles the next day, there was little mass gained.
But lots of power.

Heavy lifting build bone density. It will not necessarily help if you pack on a ton of muscle. However, strengthening weak muscles will help. In my case, working my hamstrings and adductors has helped me little by little. Obviously riding hard, riding long, and riding up mountains..helps the most. I'm no expert but the weight-room has helped reduce my weaknesses and balance my legs and back.

Generally speaking, 5 reps or less builds strength. We're talking about 85-90% 1 rep max; 10 reps or less best for hypertrophy. More than that is okay for hypertrophy too, but not optimal; you're building more muscular endurance. Perhaps doing >10 might be useful for longer rides...but probably not.

Endurance athletes probably could do well incorporating some kind of weight lifting into their overall training program as the hours of aerobic work likely causes some muscle loss. Lifting weights, especially at the 85-90% max zone, will mitigate some of that loss. Will it make you a better cyclist? No, but it might keep you from looking like this:

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