WhyFi

I saw a new guy in the Top 10 on a particular segment. The ride title was "EBike." I mean, come on.

atwl77

I suspect that part of the problem might be that these guys may be recording their activity using the Strava app itself, instead of using a dedicated device and uploading after the fact from a PC.


While the ride type can be changed after you finish the ride (but I suspect many either don't realize or cannot be bothered to), but you cannot crop the ride from within the mobile app.

DrIsotope

So "my" E-Bike guy is apparently doing it deliberately-- less than 24 hours after I had flagged his KOM-stealing E-Bike ride, he came back and E-Biked that segment alone-- literally just that 3.5 mile segment. The lightest amount of sleuthing shows that he got the E-Bike on November 11 (as that's when his average ride speed jumped 6mph) so I just went and flagged every ride he's done since the 11th.

Having heard tell of others encountering E-Bikers going out after KOMs, I thought that it was just internet speculation or suspicion. But I can tell you for sure, these people exist. He had gotten into the top 10 on the climbing segments of the Redlands Bicycle Classic TT course, just a week after averaging 13-14mph on flat road.

I imagine there are some out there who are less flagrant about getting themselves onto the leaderboards electrically, and I doubt Strava cares about them either. After all, the leaderboards are a slight step above meaningless. Doesn't mean it doesn't get me senselessly riled up.

f4rrest

Fight the good fight.

pickettt

Even if you exclude cheaters, Strava still is not accurate.....so what difference does it make?

Doge

For uphill 3+ min 10K+ attempt segments - it is pretty accurate. Of course there are faster times that are not recorded, but I don't see too many "cheaters" on the top of the big attempted segments.

I guess you'd have to define a cheater.

DrIsotope

Something like a dude actively going after KOMs-- and I mean sniping for them-- on this thing:

Doge

Well I think Strava should ban all motors or have a segment as different as running vs cycling and then allow cars, motor cycles etc.
That is a motor bike (as it is) and rather obvious it does not belong. But there is no enforcement on Strava unless riders flag it. If it continues, the user should get their account suspended. If Strava allows much of this, it will be the end of subscriptions.

As to cheating being special human powered bikes, or dopers they pretty much stated that is OK.

HTupolev

What confuses me is why, if someone has no qualms about using a motor on a two-wheeled vehicle to cheat, why weren't they already just driving their car or something over the segments that they wanted?

It seems like there's this weird attitude and perception around e-bikes where people perceive them as only sort of a motor vehicle.

DrIsotope

And this thing will apparently go to 30mph, so it's good for leaderboards and KOMs all day. Too bad he rides on the same routes I do, and I'm petty about my leaderboard placement... particularly if it was a +9 minute segment effort that had me blowing snot bubbles.

HTupolev

Strava's guidelines specifically rule out fully-faired velomobiles, but seem fine with other recumbents.

Doge

Thank you for the link. I've read this in bits and pieces before.

With all that, the Strava KOM is more fair than USA Cycling which is a reason I'm a fan of Strava, and value the KOM over a race win as an better indicator of the fitter athlete.

Doge

Have you tried tacks?

DrIsotope

That would punish all cyclists. I think something more advanced is in order...

Doge

I'd be a fan of that. I hate all electronics (just cause was my job 35 years ago plus some). But primarily on bikes. A good EMP weapon would be perfect.

That said, this is no different than a motor cycle or car. I'd appeal to Strava support to get the account deleted. This hurts them (Strava) more than you. If segments are filled with false information, there is no point is playing, or paying.

All joking aside, this is important to their business. You should raise an/support ticket. I have and after 6 months - they changed Gaimon's KOM...

drewguy

If you're going to cheat, at least be subtle about it. If you're not, expect to get called out.

Bah Humbug

There are no doping controls. There are no equipment controls. The weather is still a variable, whether you think wind matters or not there is still temperature. Maybe you think it's "pretty accurate", but for me it's really just a cute little incentive to put an interval or two into my workout. For a race, no matter how small and unimportant, it's defined conditions. Strava is not, and that puts it categorically below racing.

For me, anyway.

wipekitty

Agreed: that is lame, lame, lame.

I get that a lot of the flat and rolling TT segments are probably scored by drafting or a wind assist. I know I've scored a few QOMs that way (and in many cases, the times I'm trying to beat are from gals who hung at the back of the A group).

But a grinding, snot-filled, near-vomit-inducing uphill effort is something special. I'd flag the e-bike, too.

Doge

In USA Cycling racing rules say some riders in the same race may not have the 11T, 12T,13T cogs that others may have. Most don't know, don't care, but there is no comparison to the fairness of the two. Doping, does not come close to the equipment limitations USA Cycling puts on.

The adult racers beating handicapped riders by a few places or seconds generally would not if all were allowed to use the same equipment. For that reason I think the USA Cycling wins are mostly recreational feel good things.

Bah Humbug

And you're entitled to your opinion, but those rules you're unhappy about? They're rules. They're in a rulebook, and the apply to everyone (pending the "ifs", like age). Strava has no rules. It has no judges with jigs to check if the positions comply. It has no minimum bike weights. It has no anything. It's random people on random equipment on random days in random conditions. If you have issues with USA Cycling, that's unfortunate. Give running a try.

Doge

USA cycling is the only national organization I am aware of that has different rules for competitors in the same event. This issue does not affect me, or family. It is just unfair rule writing that establishes fairness has little to do with USAC cycling.

USA Cycling rules have no position requirements, no minimum bike weights either.

Strava relies on respect of those that ride alike. There is no pretense of compliance. It is honor. You do it right, or you don't. As I posted the big segments top page on Strava are more legit than USAC races.

Example: The the rider who won Redlands Pro Road Tour in 2015 was not handicapped, 2nd place was (52X14 max). I think #2 on same equipment would have won.

I'd rather change it.
But there are those who have been affected by the USA Cycling rules that changed priorities. We certainly did.
USAC is a recreational organization with ideals having little to do with the international sport and results and structure indicate that. I don't see them achieving sustained international racing success while fostering a shared commitment to safety, integrity, and the joy of cycling.

Bah Humbug

Ironman has different rules for pros and AGers in the same event.

[QUOTE=Doge;20013422]USA Cycling rules have no position requirements, no minimum bike weights either.

Strava relies on respect of those that ride alike. There is no pretense of compliance. It is honor. You do it right, or you don't. As I posted the big segments top page on Strava are more legit than USAC races.

Example: The the rider who won Redlands Pro Road Tour in 2015 was not handicapped, 2nd place was (52X14 max). I think #2 on same equipment would have won.[QUOTE=Doge;20013422]

Tragic. And again, you keep making declarative statements that your favorite Strava segments are "more legit". Even if some others agree with you, that's an opinion, and you keep phrasing it as a factual assertion, which is why we keep going around in circles and gets back to how I think you really just like stirring the pot.

Ok? So change it, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree if you're looking to Strava to make it all better.

trainsktg

KOMs in populated areas are near unachievable for the vast majority of dedicated riders anyway. I use Strava segments for the most part as a way to record and compare the results of my training over time, and for that purpose they will always hold value to me. I actually briefly considered the purchase of an ebike for commuting purposes because many of the jobsites I need to visit are in excess of 25 miles from home and have no provision for changing or washing up before work, but ultimately decided not to because the recorded rides would screw up my metrics.

Keith

tomato coupe

Doge's world view is all about his kid. He didn't like the fact that junior had to race against adults under (unfair) USAC gearing rules, and no one took notice of or remembers junior's race results. On the other hand, junior presently owns one (or more?) KOMS on Strava, so that's why Strava segments are now "more legit" than race results.

SethAZ 

Have you noticed in Strava that when you edit a ride, or select what "Sport" the ride is for, that "e-bike ride" is an option? Or, why would you bother recording e-bike rides anyway?