StanJF

​​​​​​There are two good studies comparing the effect of clipless pedals to flat pedals. The first one relates to road bikes, the second for mountainbikes.

1. Global Cycling Network - search YouTube for "Clipless Pedals Vs Flat Pedals - Which is Faster? | GCN Does Science.
2. A Comparison Of Three Bicycle Pedal Types And Power Output - 2012 study by Brandon Kuhn of Ft. Hays State.

I'm not allowed to attach anything or post links yet so you'll have to Google search them. Excellent views/reads.

Track riders have a different issue as their bikes are fixed gear, direct-drive. Staying clipped in is not only for power improvement, but also for safety as the only braking is by back-pressure. Loss of footing on a track bike can be very dangerous. For sprinters, the amount of torque and power they apply can usually pull out the cleats from a clipless pedal no matter how tight you make them. So they prefer the strap-in type in order to stay in the pedal at the start of their sprint. This isn’t as critical with TT or pursuit riders since they have smooth, sustained power compared to the explosive power of a sprinter. In my days on the track, some of us even bolted in.

Hope my comments help.

Broctoon

Yes, I believe that’s where we settled a few days ago. Now folks are bringing up all these other points about pulling on pedals and doubling our power output.

People! Could we please try to stay on topic?

Kimmo

Rubbish. Already made a post in this thread telling folks how they can build the skills to avoid that.

gregf83 

Thanks! Interesting study by Brandon Kuhn. Seems unfairly fun to be able to study that for a Master's thesis. My personal results were 752 vs 594W up a short hill clipless and flats respectively. On a sprint the numbers were 1060 vs 813W

mwaldin

Not able to find your post in this thread or any other about avoiding getting your foot stuck. I stand by my comment but would love to see your post. (I searched through your posts on your page and did a page search on the forum results for "skills" as you mentioned. No luck. Maybe I am blind.) Since I have broken my ribs due to this issue I would very much love to learn.

Seattle Forrest

He talking about doing a track stand, balancing the bike upright with both feet on the pedals.

mwaldin

I don't know if that is what he is talking about but I appreciate you tellling me. That technique looks interesting for a traffic light but it will do little for situations where balance is lost, your bike is falling and you are trying to get your feet out of the pdeals to stop the fall. But thank you.

genejockey 

Important tip #1: Practice, practice, practice.

Important tip #2: Don't set the tension too high. I don't know about you, but I'm not a world class sprinter, and so all I need in the way of tension is enough to hold my cleat when I'm putting out my very unimpressive power. I've been buying used pedals, and they ALL have had the tension set WAY high

Important tip #3: Choose a side to unclip, and unclip that side every time. I do the right, because then I can rest that foot on the curb if there is one. A lot of times I unclip a second or more before I come to a stop, which also lets drivers know you are stopping and are not about to run a red light illegally while they make a left turn in front of you legally on a green light (for example)

Important tip #4: See Important tip #1.

Kimmo

You're dead to me, Larry

mwaldin

I am not ungrateful and I really do appreciate everyone's advice. I just think there are times where getting out of clips is impossible. First there is not tension setting. My toe clisps come on and off by rotating your foot. Second, I remove my clips every time I come to a stop. That is both clips not just one. I do that so it becomes natural for me to undo them. After my break in period of learning I have not fallen over stopping my bike. I have however fallen. The last time when my ribs were broken (about 2 months ago and still not healed), I pulled up between a car at a stop light and a handicapped ramp on the curb. My plan was to pull up on the sidewalk so I could push the walk signal. Because of the car I came at the ramp at a very shallow angle and I did not see the 1/2 in high lip along the edge of the ramp. My tire caught and I fell. I guarantee you there was no way to rotate my foot and disengage the pedal in that moment while falling.

If Kimme can tell me how to get out of that situation I will be both astounded and pleased.

mwaldin

I find it quite humourous that people want to argue over something that they can easily test themselves and make up their own mind. Who cares what other people say or what data is collected when you can make up your own mind?

Seattle Forrest

Broken ribs hurt terribly. I'm so sorry to hear that. Mine wasn't related to the bike, but getting in or out of bed was enough to make me want to die. I wouldn't wish it on anybody.

Kimmo

​​​​​​​

Kimmo

I find it tragic that so many folks reckon their intuition or what their mate says can possibly trump hard science.

genejockey 

That's why I unclip BEFORE coming to a stop. Like, 20 feet before. Can't guarantee the cleat won't slip, but then at least you have one foot to put down and one to guide the bike. That's also why I always unclip the same foot - so I don't have to think about which one to unclip, and I always tilt the bike to the same side, etc. Some accidents are unavoidable, but I haven't fallen due to being clipped in in 25 years and tens of thousands of miles.

PeteHski

I think they refer to it as “Bro Science”. This thread is a great example of it!

Kimmo

I don't need to tell you, since you learnt the hard way: beware of small lips at acute angles.

If that advice doesn't sound good enough, fit a larger front tyre.

guachi

Your sprint numbers are similar to my experience. With non-grippy flat pedals the best I can muster for 5 seconds is about 750W and I've topped 1000W exactly once and that was with clipless and 800-950 several other times. I may be less efficient, but it's a sprint and I don't really care.

Branko D

Looking at my power curves for 2019 when I started riding clipless in the second part of the year and comparing it to the first part of the year when I didn't - and I can't say I went every bit as hard on one or the other, and the bikes weren't the same, so it's just informative values but interesting nevertheless;

5s power was 950W with clipless and 732W with flats.
1 min power was 505W with clipless and 400W with flats.
5 min power was 297W with clipless and 280W with flats
8 min power was 285W with clipless and 270W with flats
20 min power was 262W with clipless and 240W with flats. (first number was done as part of an uphill race)
1 hour power was 252W with clipless and 212W with flats. (first number was also done as part of the same race)
2 hour power was 202W with clipless and 205W with flats.

Weight was about constant at 72kg all the time, and of course I was somewhat more fit in the second part of the year especially being into cycling for less than two years at that point, so there's that. Anyway, while there's a substantial advantage in a sprint and the 1 minute maximum, already at the 5 minute mark where it's oxygen which is the limiting factor rather than maximal force, there's really not all that much to it.

I wouldn't ride a proper road bike with flats because there are just disadvantages to it for road riding and no real advantages. However, outside of really short efforts or those times when you simply run out of gears and getting up some steep ramp becomes a grinding anaerobic effort, there's not all that much in it. For a commuting / touring bike (which is going to have lower gears available typically) flats can be a bit more practical.

Doesn't hurt to have multiple bikes

Kapusta

What flat pedal/shoe combo were you running?

Branko D

Xpedo Spry (just looked, they were much cheaper at the time, anyway a nice and light set of pedals) and a cheap skating shoe which I found both grippy, pretty thin soled, and comfortable to ride with for long periods.

LarrySellerz

Lol 100-200 watts extra

nogasbiker

Most people would stay clipped when standing on their pedals, and the clip system keeps them from slipping off.

I may be alone in this, but when I'm cycling up an incline, I unclip. For me, I've choked a couple of times on inclines early in my clip experience, where the bike embarrassingly falls over at zero mph. Maybe it's a mental block I can't get over, but then again, I don't have problems slipping off pedals.

FWIW, I ride on Crank Brothers Candy, which is are SPD with a smallish pedal platform around them. Could ride on them with regular shoes, though that is not ideal.

gregf83 

You were expecting more or less?

billnuke1 

Don’t forget these, “foot retentioners”! Yup! They held your feet reeeal good! Too good! They could be tenacious! Just doin’ my job…

Very GRIPpy…

…did the job, though…