Again, you are off base, the cold working technique that Lynskey created and patented is a technique that is still being used today by all TI builders, with no innovations done to it since it can't be improved upon.

The expensive builders say they have innovations but when you look those innovations it's just word games, like Seven says they have customization, ok, all that is about is to build a bike based on your fit needs, not much innovation there that custom steel builders haven't been doing! Then they mention the 7-process methodology, under big bang wiz wording that means nothing in concern as to how a Ti frame is built, all it is is individualization and quality assurance...big deal.

Sturdy cycles says they produce parts using cold metal fusion, nothing new there either, it's what Lynskey created, except Sturdy used a 3D printing process now for certain TI parts, the same thing that Moots does. Some Ti builders will brag about their length of time building TI frames, one said as much as 10 years! WOW!! 10 full years!!!...oh wait, I'm getting too excited about 10 years, Lynskey has 36 years' experience with the cold process, dwarfing all others.

So, ALL these other TI builders have not done anything to innovate the process that Lynskey patented.

Titanium has a reduced carbon footprint compared to carbon fiber, can be recycled at the end of its life, and titanium doesn't corrode.

You can give Lynskey a ribbon for pioneering the technique, but it doesn't give them any advantage in today's market if everyone else uses it.

YES IT DOES, it gives them 36 years of experience using the technique. I guess from what you're saying is that you would rather go see a first time heart surgeon, and you're going to be his first heart surgery, since he or she is using the same technique that a heart surgeon who has done 100's using the "same" technique, so what's the difference? Yeah, that's what I thought.

The other bike manufacturers aren't building their first Ti frame, like your hypothetical rookie heart surgeon.

The thing about your analogy is that while the novice may not initially be as skilled as the guy who's done it hundreds of times, he's also not limited by having done it hundreds of times. My old boss, back before he lost his marbles, used to change his area of focus every couple years, because mostly, groupthink and conventional wisdom take over, and you need to look at it from the outside, the way someone new to the field does. After a few years, you lose that fresh perspective and end up thinking just like everyone else.

Now, there are, of course, people who continue working in one field and manage to keep innovating. But there are a lot more who fall into groupthink and conventional wisdom.

Actually, it does because I was being as stupid as Gene Jockey analogy was.

Withdrawn.

Can't speak to analogies, and I'm biased, but when you see how Moots hand makes their frames from domestically sourced Ti, double welding each joint, you can't help but feel confident in a "life time" frame. Cool people too. I love these small manufacturers. I agree its a matter of $$, but if that is less important, great to buy from folks like Moots (next bike will be an Argonaut, carbon).

Whatever you say, jockey boy.

This is an excerpt for a Lynskey letter: "Our tubing is grade 1, aerospace grade, 3/2.5 seamless tubing. Probably .034 - .035 in wall thickness. We have several suppliers around the world and here domestically that we deal with, depending on the tube specs. So there is no "one place" that our tubing is sourced from. All tubing is 100% first quality aerospace grade certified, and we also have several quality control testing that we do once the tubing is received. Our butting process is external butting, and we may take wall thicknesses down from .035 to potentially .028, again, depending on the model and which tube within the design." So as you can see it depends on the cost point of the bike if Lynskey will use US sourced titanium or not, all of Moots bikes are expensive so I could see them using US sourced TI. Having said that, Russian TI is actually better than US sourced TI. OT4 Aerospace titanium which is an equivalent to international standard Ti - 4Al - l.5Mn; Manganese and Vanadium are interchangeable in Ti alloys; Russia uses Mn because it is readily available in Russia. Russian OT4 would fall somewhere between 3/2 and 6/4 and be closer to 6/4. I can't find anything about Chinese TI. Also, the reason US sourced TI is more expensive is the American labor cost to refine it, doesn't mean that US sourced titanium is a better alloy.

Hey, you three guys, this thread has been around for 16 glorious years. This arguing is messing it up. How about you guys drop it or move on.

Here Here !!

Can't we all just get along. I'm here to look at pictures of glorious titanium bikes and unless one brand has its tubes warm rolled on the thighs of a beautiful swimsuit model it all the same to me. I will say I support U.S. companies because I wont give those godless commie's my hard earned coin !!

Litespeed-built Merlin (Aspen seems to be the consensus). Swapped the front Tektro CR720 for a Shorty 4 setup which solved a few shudder issues. SPD pedals no fitted for commute and longer-than-around-the-block-to-the-shops duties.

My computer and cell phone are provided by my work. I receive my hard earned coin by using commie products !!

But your right ... I was mostly joking ....when possible I support American companies despite all their use of heathen commie parts ....Thank god I like Italian motorcycles ....surely they do not use Chinese parts :; )

Loving the cool air this morning. Great to be back on the Helix.

Lynskey made this one, too.
26 years ago.

This is gorgeous! Can we please get some details? Curious about the frame in particular.

Seven Axiom SL

Nicke71, that is a superb looking bike! I always liked the Seven Ti bikes.

New bar tape to match the headset. Got some blingy chainring bolts too, but didn't want to get the hands dirty to install them. Oh, and added a holographic sticker on the down tube - looks good under the light. Heavy and noodly compared to my carbon bikes, but I like the thin-tubes aesthetics. Set up as 1x with 44/12-36, good enough for solo riding without serious climbs (roughly equivalent to 34/28 climbing gear). Threw on 25mm Paves; 25mm GP4000 would not clear the chainstays 😔. Maybe a potato chip mod away from running 30mm tires (clearance on fork and seat stays seem good).

Posting this in too many threads but oh well.

Just picked up my new Moots Vamoots RCS. New DA12 Di2 with a Stages left arm PM (no dual sided available yet). Titanium everything (stem/seatpost/cages) and carbon everything else. Went with Enve 4.5AR SES wheels; a bit more aero given the lack of elevation in the Midwest. Apparently Dura Ace 140 brake rotors don't exist yet so we adapted the rear to a 160 (extra braking power).

Got one of the new Silica titanium mounts however my old Wahoo Bolt didn't fit so I had to get a new one (oh darn). I was thinking about it anyway so apparently now was the time.

Only did a test ride before taking delivery and it was unreal. The sound of riding on the titanium and the Enve Hub was incredible. New DA shifts before your finger even leaves the shifter. Can't wait to give it a proper introduction to the road this weekend.

Here's one of our LiteSpeed Cheerohala City bikes at the turn around spot for today's ride.

Wait - Did I not post the latest iteration of my Litespeed in this thread? I swear I've posted it everywhere else I thought I could get away with it!

This is the third and probably final build I've done on this frame since receiving it in December. 1995 Litespeed Ultimate with Time carbon fork. Ultegra R8000, Fulcrum Racing 4 wheels. I liked the previous one with 7410 Dura Ace, but it didn't have enough gears - 39x25 is not enough!

Love the Axiom! After 15 yrs with my Alaris, the equivalent of today's Axiom S, I plunked down a deposit on an Axiom XX this week, so I would appreciate some details on your rig that I can't glean from the pics. Back when I bought my Alaris, Seven made more components, so I started with Seven fork, stem, and seat post. Since the stem is certainly no longer an option, what stem did you choose?

Thanks,

Dave

BTW, really like the looks of the bottle cages!