Perhaps a better question is how many times the silent majority opt out of responding and contributing something noteworthy?

I for one don't have any issues with pcad in his posts - he normally offers either a) advice, b) pretty good balloon puncturing sarcasm or c) sleight of hand that avoids the wrath of others, while mentioning Cervelo and/or DA7900. There are many others who do not contribute any of these.

They are not silent. They report threads and posts all day, every day. They ask us to clean up this forum of the trash that some of the loud thick headed "regulars" routinely spout on this forum. Us, as moderators, attempt to strike a balance. However, in my opinion, the "regulars" have started to take in the way of banter and "good humored ribbings" more than they give in terms of actual meaningful content on this board.

I stopped venturing into this subforum nearly completely for nearly 4-5 months over the last year. I'd had enough of it. For many of the very reasons BillyD pointed out in this thread. I commend him on standing up and saying it. Just because you don't like the fact he said it doesn't make it any less true.

You have a choice on how to act every moment of every day of your life. It's easier to act like a jerk on the internet, I know it, but I choose to act like I would act in person. Perhaps you are too. I don't know you in person so I don't know. But I do know that there are people on this forum that I'd have no interest in meeting in person, let alone riding with, had I the choice. Maybe they are different in person, but by the way they come across online, I don't care to find out.

I posit that interestly, the road racing forum is much more civil than the road cycling forum...

Well I'm glad you're back cuda. As a mod, what are you going to do to change things around here?

I would tell you to STFU and learn to use your ignore button.

I would tell you to read at least the first page of a thread before jumping in.

And I would tell you that I have read the entire thread, and agree with BillyD.

I am one of those 'silent members' who is tired of seeing people getting blasted simply because they are new.

Have you asked yourself how you can make this a better community for everyone? Or do you simply not care about the eyes reading this, and nodding in agreement with BillyD?

What have YOU done to make this a better place for everyone, including me?

I've not let inflammatory posts like this incite rash responses from me.

I'm discussing with the mods and admins about an addendum to Tom's intro to Road Cycling sticky. Basically stating that while there is a roadie culture that needs to be understood in here, it does not give members the right or privilege to violate the community guidelines of this forum. From there, try to get more coverage and more even moderation in this forum. We brought on a number of new mods in recent months to try to achieve this in here, and in some regards that helped.

However, what we really need is more self moderation. Members trying to realized that just because they can say something, doesn't mean they should say it. I occasionally delete the first sentence of a response by the time I get finished typing the full post. Why? Because I feel I don't need to state the obvious, ie "You're an idiot" or the like (yes, I do think it, and yes I do type it, but rarely does it get submitted). Instead, I leave what is meaningful, and hopefully beneficial.

Can Road Cycling be changed, yes. Should it be changed, probably. Can it be done with an Iron Fist from the mods, not without much more pain on both sides than is worth it. Can it be done with everyone doing a little bit and thus doing their part - absolutely. I came to this forum in 2005 looking for help on a way too big bike I'd bought on ebay for $10. It was 3 sizes too big, stem shifters, chicken wing brake levers, the works. Granted my photography might have been a little better than the new member in question today, but had I gotten the same responses he had, I'd probably responded in much the same way. Or not at all. It's the not at all that is the worst. You mentioned the silent majority, those are the members who are here and contribute now and then, ready plenty, but don't feel like opening themselves up to the "regulars" responses.

How many others, good riders, who you and I could both learn from, do you think may never post here because of how some people post? Or new riders who love the sport and just want to learn and get better? The newbie may not have as much to share with us who have been riding a while, but we all started somewhere. And on the next ride into a 20mph headwind, when you're wishing the pace line rotation was a little longer, consider you may have discouraged a rider from getting better who could be up there in front of you taking the wind for a turn instead of it being your turn.

sammy, thanks for making your opinion heard. However I think the message of this thread was to try to say things in a more respectful way so that your message isn't lost in the harshness of it's delivery. I've said my peace above (at least for now). I've got a major software release on one of my websites to get ready to be pushed here in about 40mins. So, I bid you all a good night, and hope ya'll got more miles over the last 4 days than I did. :beer:

Thanks!

This is exactly what BillyD was discussing, and what I was talking about.

Bdcheung, my post isn't inflammatory at all--but your response is telling.

I AM the silent majority. Your response shows that you are not ready to help me.

I know, and the point I was making is that my post is considered 'inflammatory', when it's the standard here in Road Cycling.

Ironic, eh?

Indeed.

Again. I agree that one should lurk within a community to get the feel of it before posting so as to get an idea of what to expect. There is a disclosure, a warning of sorts but that still does not give permission to go at him.

But when a newbie posts for the first time and asks for his bike to be judged, I would think it's in terms of a constructive way, not one that belittles the way he has the bike set up. I think he was searching for help more than anything. And although there were some honest helpful opinions, he more or less tried to defend himself by posting what he did which translated to him not coming here again.

If some believe he was a troll, then why feed the troll?

Even if so, granted sometimes members rib each other here, a TRUE newbie who is TRULY lurking might see it and be scared off, too intimidated to seek help, thinking he is not part of the "crew". And at that point I saw that some tried to let him know it was joking, and some continued on.

Please don't be mean. It's just not fitting. :(

Just remember that behind the keyboard there is a real person out there. With real feelings.

Man you guys whine WAY to much.....

define whining.

AMEN brother

whine |(h)wīn|
noun
a long, high-pitched complaining cry : the dog gave a small whine.
• a long, high-pitched unpleasant sound : the whine of the engine.
• a complaining tone of voice.
• a feeble or petulant complaint : a constant whine about the quality of public services

I see little evidence of whining here. It is a typed forum and thus has no actual sound.

Your third definition might be applicable but I see no evidence of either feebleness or petulance.

Everyone who has had issue with the content on the Road forum but never said anything is just as responsible as those who contributed the content.

Thats because we actually get out and race, and many know each other in real life. It creates a different dynamic.

As for the rest of this. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I think there are a fair number of people who post in the road forum that have something to add, that would not bother to answer questions for the 20th time if there wasn't some good natured banter included in the deal.

This board is no different than the road cycling scene (racing and non-racing) I've been immersed in for over 20 years. Much like a group ride, newbies who choose to partake will occasionally get yelled at. That's no different than the sport. If the ribbing they take here scares them off, I can't imagine what they'll do the first time they encounter a typical group ride. In other words I seriously doubt anything you do here will make any difference in the Big Picture, and you'll really only be trying to homogenize road cycling culture.

That's like Missionaries in the rainforest. And you know what happens to them.

http://www.reachout.org/eots/eots%20221.jpg

I think that just about sums it up on both counts.

Correct.

Oh, if you only knew what an absolute jerk you're sounding like. :lol:

One day when you finally grow up, if ever, you'll look back and learn something from today and the many other days like this you'll be experiencing. You don't even realize how much you're embarassing yourself.

Anyway, shouldn't you be getting to bed? Are you all ready for school tomorrow?

You are granted absolution, then.

I am happy to know that if I make a naive comment in the future, that I will not be treated with disrespect.