i do see myself in some of the descriptions that people are giving here, that's what i'm saying...now your kind of getting it. i'm saying that it's very easy to be labeled a jerk unfairly is all. this tread is about snobbery and insularity, i'm trying to offer a position where i'm not calling somebody a snob but where i'm percieved as one unfairly. maybe it's not a point that people had brought up before, but i think i'm entitled to bring up a new point once in a while. and if you read a couple of the posts below my original one, there are a few forum members that agree with that. as for the elitist problem - if you don't recoginze that, you need to take a look at this sentence:

"I personally avoid the elitists like the plague- they aren't worth the ground I spit on, nor are they worth my time." Koffee Brown.

this is the most elitist dribble i've ever heard!! this is no better than anyone else who sneers or makes comments. i'd say it's much worse actually because it has some serious anger behind it. saying that somebody isn't worth the ground you spit on is disturbing to read. and i think if your involvment with cycling leads you to arrive at such hateful conclusions, you should take a vacation and find something else to do. i'm being very serious about that.

And I'm just as serious when I say you seriously need to calm down or something. Sheesh, you really must identify with what the rest of us are calling snobbery, since you seem to be very uptight and defensive. Perhaps subconsciously, you are an elitist snob and the remarks others make are hitting home? If so, I really think you ought to take a good look at how you treat others when you're out riding the roads- you really aren't doing any good for the sport of cycling, because every time you post, you seem to get more and more hostile, which must mean you seriously are as bad as what we are posting about. I just don't see any other reason why you are getting so upset about something that you claim you do not participate in. I am puzzled. But then again, if you are the snob and you can't admit it, then I guess I can understand why you'd be so hostile when others post their experiences, then call the offenders "snobs". It may be a good idea for you to do a little self-examination and really make a change with how you approach other fellow cyclists so that others won't perceive you as a snob if you are so upset that they do see you that way. I'm serious. Seriously.

Well, others understand what the point of this thread is, and for those who don't, that's your problem, not ours, since we seem to be resolving our problems here by NOT allowing these snobs to run us off the roads, not allowing them to intimidate us with nasty attitudes or snide comments, etc. I seriously do not think the day will come when cyclists will just be glad that people are out there enjoying cycling and not think badly upon them- snobs will just get more uptight and defensive, and they will find other ways to distinguish themselves from the general cycling population. That's just their way, and that's how they like things to be. That "us verses them" attitude isn't going anywhere. My plan is to do what I've been doing- ride my bike, ignore them (as I'm about to do with Tim from here on out), and enjoy the sport and not let them intimidate me to the point that I can't enjoy myself when I'm out there cycling.

Koffee

I just think of the Nike commercial with Lance Armstrong and the guitar playing...

JUST DO IT

Who cares if you're a snob or not a snob? We all ride because we like to.

Just this past week I had a snob on a TT bike smirk at me as he passed me by in the park, I was trying really hard and it showed and he was hardly trying at all and zoomed by...

... then the same thing happened with a guy on a Trek mountain bike, smirked as he passed me by while riding in the park.

I did 170 miles this week, I don't care how fast I did it, I'm just happy I did it. When my legs are full of lactic acid and I can barely pedal I still go ride my bike.

Damn snobbery... or the lack of it.

I wonder where this places me on the snob scale. I've only been riding road for less than 6 months, so I think it may be harder to call me (or I am less likely to be) a "snob" at this point anyway, but...

I was riding at a local park loop the other day before work. Being that it was before work, I was especially limited on time. I had to get there, ride while I have the chance, get home so I can get to work. Anyway, this guy on his bike pulls over to what you might call a "pit area" directly off the path, appeared to be having bike probs, probably a flat. I was just getting into my ride, and I didn't feel like having a conversation (nor did I have the time). But when I passed this guy a few times, he just sorta' looked at me, like, "what are you going to do to help me???" I suppose if I were out on a trail, and there was even the slightest risk this poor fellow was going to be stranded in the hot sun w/o water, food, or with a long hike home, I might slow and ask if all was OK. But this was a public park, 100 feet from a major roadway, well into the city, plenty of pay phones, businesses, cars galore....and I'm sorry, but at that moment, this guy's poor planning was his own problem. Wasn't about to spoil my ride and what limited time I had. And because he looked at me as though to hoping to get my attention, I made a point to keep eyes forward.

Was I being a snob? Do you think he perceived me as being a snob?

Yes.

In our part of the world, if you have a flat about 90% of the riders that pass will inquire as to if you need anything. Always remember that might be your stranded some day!

In my part of the world too. When passing folks on the trail, or on the side of a road, I am the first to ask if all is OK. But there's a distinction that makes this scenario interesting to me. In this case the guy was NOT stranded. Far from it. He was not out on a dirt trail, not even stuck on the side of the road. He was on the paved loop in a public park, about 30 seconds from a major road, very much in the city, plenty of water fountains, payphones, businesses. He was on a closed LOOP, so no matter how far he had ridden, he could not be more than 60 seconds of the parking area by foot. If he was like 99% of riders there, he drove his car there.

towlie - this is what i was talking about above, but couldn't seem to get my point across. you're just riding out by yourself doing your thing and this guy is there who needs help. given the description of the envirnoment, i think your okay in riding past. this is how my riding environment is in NY. however, in his eyes, he probably went home and told his wife that nobody helped him and that all these cyclists are a bunch of snobs.

we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, okay? i have a feeling if we were talking face to face it wouldn't be a problem, but the written word can be read into all sorts of ways. i'm sure i'm reading things in your message that you didn't intend, and it's probably the same for you.

perhaps all this confusion can be summed up in a single question - which i should have asked directly:

what are somethings that you (all of us in the forum) have done that somebody else would precieve as snobbery?

for me, a lot of times it's ignoring people. one time i told a guy that i didn't want him to draft...he got huffy. another time a person was drafting i got out of the saddle and tried to drop him. i wonder if those are real acts of snobbery (maybe they are) or just a case where somebody would take it the wrong way.
my girlfriend, who has no cycling experience, has admitted to me that she thought almost all 'serious' roadies were out to run her off the road. i think i've been able to change her thinking somewhat, but it's just interesting to me that from her point of view, they are hostile people to watch out for. i don't really think it's fair to say that, but i know that's a very common perception of cycling.

I don't suppose you two (timmhaan & koffee brown) are married to each other. Then this thread would make sense....

I'm a new roadie, and I noticed that some people wave and some don't. Sometimes people wave and I don't have time to return the favor if I wait for them, so I've adopted the practice of just waving first to everybody. If they're friendly I usually get a wave and appreciative smile, and if they're not, who cares - screw 'em.

I'm also a lone wolf rider. I have an old Peugeot road bike that works well for me, and I can't afford all the slick fancy biking clothes at the moment. Maybe after I lose some weight and get faster I'll start going on group rides that my LBS sponsors. I've noticed a little snobbishness at the LBS because I'm not dropping hundreds if not thousands of dollars on bike equipment. My ultimate goal is to be able to complete in mini-triathlons and be able to participate in century road races, and until I get a little better and faster, I'm quite content riding as a lone wolf.

Matt

Ok, so as a newbie, can someone please explain what a "camelbak" is?
thanks
Matt

It's an unnecessary device that's essentially a big bag of water that you wear on your back. It's got a tube that you suck water from. It's for people too clumsy to reach down and get a drink or feel that one must carry 5 gallons of water for a 70 mile ride.

Down here in the Old Dominion, we-all don't get to feeln too uppity, lest you get too close to them boys in Warshington, cause we-alls know that we'en aint too far removed from them there Bubbas who'em we decended frum. That-a-way we all get to wav'en and holler'en and crash'en just 'cause wez too friendly. So ya'll come on down here and ride a spell. No krauts though. We-all don't take too kindly to bein spat on.

This reminds me of something I recently did. It was during the Seattle to Portland Ride. We had just left one of the rest stops about a couple of miles previous when I noticed this guy along the side of the road.



So instead of stopping and asking if he needed help, I snapped a picture and kept going.

I'm such an a$$!

Seriously though, I did keep on going. I heard him shout something to me but I just thought it was a greeting so I waved back.

You see... the thing is. I knew the guy. He and I ride with my bike shop. I also knew several other things about his situation.

1. That was not his bike he was standing next to. That was one of the shop's bike that one of the people riding with him was borrowing. I surmised he was giving one of them help.
2. He was travelling with four other people.
3. We were not far from a rest stop.
4. The STP has rolling mechanical support. Stick your arm out with your thumb down and one of the motorcycles or sag-wagons will stop for you.
5. He had his own two-van personal support. I saw them at the last rest stop when he was changing the cassette on his wheels.

I figured he was in no danger.

However, I later found out that he had to wait an hour for help to arrive. Apparently his crew had already driven ahead. Hundreds of other riders passed him but nobody stopped. All he needed was a tyre lever because the tyre bead was too tight. He gave me a ribbing the next day when I saw him at the shop and luckily he doesn't consider me a snob. I think that if it were anyone else, the perception might have been different. It's true that he wasn't in any danger of being truly stranded but he was inconvenienced and all I needed to have done was stop for five minutes to lend him a tyre lever. It would have been the nice thing to do.

Last week, I was riding along one of the bike paths here. I got to this nice straight section where I normally crank it up. It was a nice sunny Saturday afternoon and there were lots of cyclists. I was flying down the paths at about 25MPH when I saw on the opposite side, a guy on the side of the road with his front wheel off. Other cyclists had gone by him in both directions. I shouted, "you okay?" He responded with, "not really." I grabbed the brakes and pulled off. After turning around to get to him, he first thanked me for stopping to help and then explained his problem. He said his front wheel was wobbling badly and felt loose. I looked at it and determined that the hub cones had loosened up. After tightening them and making sure everything was spinning freely, we had a conversation about cycling. He was a newbie cyclist and asked a few other pieces of advice. He told me that he had stopped off at a bikeshop along the path a bit earlier and they wanted $15 just to even look at the wheel. After about 10 minutes, he thanked me again and we went our ways. I felt good for the rest of the day.

I didn't know you rode with Dom Deluise!

Just joking, no I'm not a troll.

One day I stopped on the Queensboro bridge to check my tire for pieces of glass (the bridge is littered with broken glass), a lady stopped and asked me if I needed a pump. I thanked her and said I was OK. She definitely wasn't a snob.

Wow! Look at the legs on this thread! Who'd of thought the topic would draw this much attention. So I guess I'll add my two cents... Today a couple went by in the opposite direction on their bikes. I was on mine going toward home at the end of my ride. I religiously will wave and say "Hi" when I see someone (bike, walking, rollerblades ... even a guy on a farm tractor once) but today was different. I was really beat - I mean really, really doggin' ... the couple said "Hi" first and by the time I actually got my arm in the air and some breath in my chest, enough to puff out a pretty sorry "hel-lohhhhhh", they had past missing the entire effort - which was major!

Now, I don't ride a fancy bike and my outfit is so not-roadie (any ol shorts and a big t-shirt for comfort) and hopefully they saw the look of exaushtion and understood - but if not and if my mount was a bright shiney three thousand dollar bike that ends in a vowel, I'd imagine they might think me a "snob". And believe me, had I run into anyone when I finally stopped, I wasn't talkin' to them either.

Point is, there's many reasons why someone may seem "snobby". And in a sport that puts the hurt on ya' like cycling, I'd imagine it's pretty common to be in a situation that might make you look like snob even if you're the nicest person on earth.

Second point, fancy road bikes are like fancy cars -- everyone wants one and those that have them are proud of them and love them. Sometimes folks get carried away and say things that may seem insulting. For example, "My last sports car was an english car, what a piece of crap" is gonna sting like hell for anyone currently driving an english sports car. Same is true of bikes "downtube shifters were such a pia, I dumped that whole bike and bought one with an Ergo group" is gonna sting if you're riding a downtube shifter bike. It's not intentionally insulting, but unless someone is aware, it's easy to step in a big stinky by just stating a fact.

Sometimes we all can be too sensitive about ourselves and not sensitive enough to others. Snobs or not, we've all done it.

Third point, stopping to help someone in a situation like Khoun was in (during some sort of an event with support apparently readily available) doesn't seem like a necessity, does it? I doubt I would have stopped unless flagged down, even if I knew the guy. Seems a lot different than on a trail or road far from support where I'd say stopping is a must and is one of those karma based things -- do it to be helpful or do it cause some day you're gonna need someone to stop for you, just do it ;-)

OK - After following this thread for seemingly days & days, I am now prepared to add my own 2¢ worth of useless vitriol. It is entirely possible that my feelings are a direct result of my ride today. I have been monitoring my own behavior & have tried my best to step out of my Sidi's for a moment to think about how others might perceive me while riding. I have come to the conclusion that many may look upon me as a snob. I don't normally wave or nod at other riders. I try my best to maintain my own personal focus while riding & in all honesty, probably rarely even notice other riders out there unless they are somehow inside my space. I guess I ride with blinders on.

That said, today I decided to take a different approach directly inspired by this thread. I took off the blinders. Heck, it was a beautiful Sunday - what better time to try & spread some cheer and roadie goodwill. I really wanted to take it all in. The roads, bike paths, downtown streets. See the whole bloody mess. I was nodding & waving. All smiles to the other bikers that I would see & got a few back as well. My biggest impression was "what a wild cast of characters there are out here". Guys (and girls) on hot-lit road bikes, couples (Always on Trek's it seems), Kids on BMX bikes, Grans & Gramps - you name it. Some with helmets, some without. Some in full bike kits (myself included) and many without.

It occurs to me that they are ALL OK. I think back to some of the bickering that I have read on this (and other) forums about what looks good & what doesn't. Helmet or no helmet. Campy or Shimano. Draft or don't Draft. It's suddenly all seeming really silly.

It was right about then that a woman on a recumbent pulled right out into the street in front of me without looking & blocks the entire lane. She just stops. Like it's a gas powered vehicle that won't start or something. I am forced off the road & into the ditch. Suddenly all that "goodwill" stuff goes out the window. I recall yelling something about her girth & referring to the circus.

Once my ride is over, I reach the following conclusions: All people out there doing it on your basic 2-wheel bike are GOOD. Wanna wear your Saeco Kit? Cool.... Wanna draft me? No problem. 300 pounds, but working to get there? Keep it up. Hammering it on your Schwinn Continental? No wave? That's cool,too. You have my utmost respect & support. On the other hand, if you are out there on anything that resembles a "contraption", anything that I would call a "mid-life cricycle" forget it. If you are walking your monkey while learning how to rollerskate, forget it. If you insist on riding the wrong way, forget it. If you insist on hauling 8 kids down the side of the road in a trailer attached to your tandem, forget it. If you are so in LOVE with your honey that you have to ride side by side at all costs, forget it.

Tomorrow I will try to approach the ride a bit friendlier. I may continue to throw out the occasional wave or smile. Rest assured that I will still be keeping my "blinders" close enough to grab if needed....

Its two wheels and leg power....it isn't suppose to be this serious.


with that said, there is nothing sweeter than seeing a dude on an 18 yr old mid-level bike(with toe clips and sneakers) burn by some other fully coordinated dude on a brand new $3000 bike.

Unless you're the guy on the $3000 bike! In my first tri on my spanky new carbon fiber miracle machine, I hear this terrible grinding noise behind me. I was on the aerobars and couldn't turn around easily. The noise keeps getting closer and closer and finally I hear "Passing on your left."

It's a guy on a 25 year old Sears Free Spirit 10-speed.

Well, forget about saving my legs for the run split. There's no way I can be passed by this wreck. So I hammered the rest of the bike and had a terrible run as a result but at least I beat the Free Spirit!

We live in a suburban area that's pretty idyllic, at least in a family sense, not very far from a middle school and motorized scooters and "pocket bikes" (tiny little motorcycles that do about 30mph) are all the rage among middle-high schoolers. Most of them are so broad-beamed that I'm thinking as I ride by that the last thing they need is something motorized hauling their unfit-12-to-15-year-old bodies around, not to mention the noise and pollution. Point being that I don't begrudge anyone who has the good sense or desire to ride around on their bikes - on the contrary, I admire the fact that they are making an effort, regardless of their level of fitness. Too many people these days don't make any kind of effort and belittling whatever efforts they do make doesn't encourage them to continue down a road (literal and figurative) that most will agree benefits everyone in some way.

Regarding stopping, as I ride by whether someone is walking their bike or stopped, I always slow down and ask them if they need anything. Even if it's just a cell phone to call someone to pick them up, it's no skin off my back and it's just the right thing to do.

lol - how many of you haven't done something like this!? Ego and competitive nature are terrible things...

A friend and I were riding down the road yesterday when another cyclist approached from the other direction. As he got closer, we could see he was wearing a heavy metal t-shirt and listening to music on headphones as he rode his huffy along the road. We both waved. He ignored us. I guess he was a snob.

I tend not to wave to people wearing head phones, first they are usually in their own world and second I really hate coming up on them because they can't hear you call out "on your left". So many times I've had to really swerve into the traffic lanes to get around someone with head phones and yes I usually give them a dirty look. They probably think I'm a snob, but I think they are a road hazard so I guess we are even.

No, just an idiot. Anybody who would ride with headphones on is a moron. In Maryland it is against the motor vehicle code (which governs bicycles) to have headphones on. You could get a ticket for wearing them. Personally, I like to hear what is coming up on me from the rear.

Now to the snob thing.....

I have a nice bike. I am a decent rider. It took a long, long time and a ton of work to become a decent rider. A nice bike costs a bit of cash. Mine is not top-of-the-line, but still a high-quality bike. For years I rode other people’s used equipment until I could afford a nice bike. I put in the time and work to get fit, I saved my money, and therefore I think I should have a decent ride. Does this make me a snob? I hope not. I have no problem with people who want to ride whatever they want to ride. However, I do like to protect my health, safety and the investment in my bike, all of which could be lost in a crash. I do have a problem with people showing up on long and/or fast group rides and being ill-equipped, inexperienced or just plane old clueless. These people are a hazard to the entire ride and everyone on it. I also have a pet peeve with people who have expensive rides but can’t pedal, but I guess that is more of a socio-economic peeve. So, some of what some beginners might find to be snobbery may in fact be the instinct of self-preservation well rooted in experienced cyclist who have been in and seen their share of bodily-injury and bike-busting mishaps. When I first started riding seriously, I found out about a local ride. This ride had no cue sheet or route, it was whatever the more experience riders decided to do that particular day. The first time I showed up to this ride, they tried to kill me. The guys who knew each other would take turns attacking me. I hung for a long time. The next time I hung longer. The forth time I showed up, they could not drop me. Then, they accepted me and I was one of the guys…and I was a much better rider for it. Nice? no... but that is the way it was. If you wanted to ride fast or race, you had to pay your dues.

When I ride, I wave at everyone. Cyclist, people walking dogs, anybody. If I think I am going to startle somebody from behind, I call out to them that I am approaching. Sometimes they respond, sometimes not. If I catch another rider from behind, I slowdown and say hello. If they want to ride with me, they are welcome. If they want to draft, they are welcome.

Why can't some people get over the fact that someone has more money than you do and wants to spend it on a 4,000 dollar bike and all the goodies??? Is there a test to see if you deserve a nice bike? Get over it, in life things aren't fair and the most talented rider may not be able to afford the best bike. That kind of talk is nothing more that "class envy".

Rant over.

I used to be the guy with the million dollar bike and the ten-cent legs. That's okay. I didn't deserve the bike I bought. But I've ridden the hell out of it in the last couple of years and I deserve it now. I'm going to try and curb my own snobbishness and wave at everyone.

The funny thing that I've noticed, at least about myself, is that the more you know about bikes, the more appreciative you become of older, well-maintained bikes. There's a guy who often does the River Ride on an 80s vintage steel racer with down tube shifters and a 7 or 8 speed cog. It's a beautiful bike. The details are a bit different with the newer technology, but the basic design is the same.

It makes me think about holding onto my '01 for another 15 years so I can give it to my son when he's old enough. He'll say, "I don't know how you guys could ride with just 9 speeds. What did you do before continuously variable gearing came along?"

[edited for clarity]