You are reading me wrong, I'm not "changing my ideas." The power isn't necessarily generated by the upstroke, and I never said that it was. But the upstroke is crucial in keeping the momentum of the pedalstroke. Pulling across the bottom and up are both important.

Bottom line is that without being able to lift up on the pedal it is not possible to generate as much power as otherwise in a high force application such as a steep climb at a low cadence.

And you still have not provided any qualifications that would make anybody take you seriously.

Okay, so, getting back to the OP. The negatives against Clipless are "i'm worried that I'll fall." Everyone who uses clibless has fallen once (at least), myself included, and yet we're still here, waxing eloquent about the glories of clipless. Yes, it sucks to fall in clipless pedals, but as you grow accustomed to the feeling of clipless and used to pulling out, it becomes second nature. It's like any other sport that involves non-traditional footwear (hockey, synchronized disco-rollerskating, etc) - eventually you just get used to it.

The pros of clipless vs. platform are evident to anyone who has ever ridden clipless. The clipless vs. toe clips is debatable, for sure, but I personally prefer the feeling of being in my clipless to the fixie to clips i ride occasionally. But not being able to pull up is huge, as other posters mentioned, and if you don't see that, then you're just not riding all that hard, in which case, Clipless probably isn't right for you anyone. I mean, shoot - i have an old Schwinn Chicago SS with platforms that i get groceries on, because it's a flat ride the whole way and i bike with my girlfriend on her old Univega Maxima Una. So Clipless aren't ideal for every situation - but situations that demand efficient, powerful strokes are going to be better resolved with Clipless. End of story. Right? Am I right?

Oh man. I totally effed that dramatic end.

False

This is what I know.. If I hop on a road bike with platform pedals for the first few moments I need to 'relearn' not to lift my feet off the pedals on the upstroke. How much does it matter? I don't know, but for me clipless certainly feels more efficient and comfortable, therefore for me, it is better and that is enough.

Good enough, I think we can both agree power-generation on the up-stroke isn't a large factor in power(note: not cadence)... one of my qualms with what was understood earlier.

Shoot, UMD. Going into that Post I was trying not to commit the error of generalizing, and ignoring your prowess.

FAIL.

I think you are getting into semantics. Whether or not the power is generated on the up-stroke is not the issue. Without a secure connection and the ability to pull on the up-stroke, there would not be as much power.

It's umd, not UMD. Not. An. Acronym.

Thanks.

When doing the tough climbs , I like to apply a little more force when ascending.. To do that I once in awhile stand on the pedals.. I'd never do that if i was not secured to my pedals. It's easy to click out, so whats the problem.. Constant energy return with the ability to pull up on the pedals., Taking the heat off of your downward stroke.. Spinning reduces contact to the pedal surface which reduces friction..

many people ride a road bike with clipless and also have a more convenient get about/commuting bike without clipless pedals because clipless are just not good for hop on hop off riding. I do, and when you ride both, all these semantics arguments are pointless. say what you will but riding both tells me clipless is far superior performance-wise and far inferior convenience-wise.

of all my cycling purchases, clipless pedals is the one single upgrade that made the most difference to my cycling performance and most immediate.

those adamant clipless are no better....maybe you want to go back to the days of coal and steam engines or maybe even hore drawn carriages.

Wow, this would be interesting.

damn. quoted before i could fix the typo. and this is on the interweb for all eternity.

Post deleted.

I remember when Look first came out with clipless pedals. Up until then everyone who was into performance used clips, cleats and straps. While everyone seems to be talking about the benefits of the power on the up stroke there is also the back stroke which is the advantage cleats gave over simply using toe clips and straps. Before you stopped you had to reach down and loosen the straps so you could get your foot out. Clipless were a great advance and became popular rather quickly. They were not a performance enhancement over cleats and straps but they were a major convenience advance. The only time I've ever fallen with clipless was when some idiot who didn't know how to work his pulled up next to me at a light and proceeded to knock me over when he had trouble getting out of his clipless pedals.

Do people really fall over? Stay off the roads you're disasters.

I am open to bribes.

I posted peer-reviewed literature that stated the same thing. Despite the request for such literature, it was ignored.

People like Lance and Schleck? Or people like Phinney and Hoy? I'm confused.

And also a request for his qualifications was ignored.

Basically all these objections to toeclips go away if you jut tighten enough to help your foot positioning, not enough to cause extraction or circulation problems.

Except for the knee angle thing, but that's why if you do use slot cleats you need to set their position on the shoe carefully.

I'm old enough to know this stuff, too.

Toe clips with loose straps are less efficient than clipless pedals.
Toe clips with tight straps are just as efficient as clipless (if used with similar shoes).

tspek, don't get your panties in a bunch... I visited the papers you posted, i can't have a discussion and read the papers at the same time. ok?

umd, please stop asking for my "credentials." I would tell you about how many millions of feet i have climed and my superior awesomeness but, that would simply get in the way of our rational discussion.

trust me, just because the earth isn't flat doesn't mean that there is negligible benefit from clipless pedals

If you are going to have a contrarian position to everyone, you should at least explain the basis or experience for your position. I am not trying to claim "superior awesomeness," I'm just saying that I climb a lot, I have a lot of experience to back up what I am saying. As far as anyone here knows, you don't even ride a bike.

It's Christmas Eve and all you can come up with is:
"Post deleted"

I used to enjoy Flyer's games till they got ***** and brutalised by Rupp and the gang this month.
Ohio players control the flow