Prices aside...

Frame's the most important part of a bike and it has to fit it's prospective owner well. Some people can't afford a top end frame AND Super Record and; if the frame is a pile of ****, then Di2 aint gonna help much. Go for the top frame, fit whichever components you can afford at the time and then look to upgrade some time down the line.

exactly this

I have relatively little riding experience. At current stage I can feel BIG difference between frames, I can feel difference between wheels and tires. I fail to feel any significant difference between 105 and DA. So if I needed to buy new bike now and I can afford better frame by saving on components I'd prefer this option. I can always upgrade components later when/if I could feel a difference.

I can't see this as a successful sales model so I suspect there are other factors at play here.

Are there naive buyers who'll drop 5K+ for the "right" name on the downtube with no regard for the components? I'd imagine so.

Are there enough naive buyers to keep this shop going? I'm becoming skeptical.

Do at least some of these naive buyers actually ride, associate with other riders, get questioned about their bikes, realize they got taken advantage of and become irritated and start spreading the word? I would think it inevitable.

IOW if this is a shop that is purposefully under-dressing high end frames I can't see it being successful for long, unless that part of TN is chock full of naive affluent people who are into cycling.

Who knows?

could it be that manufacturers want to lower the per-frame cost of the high end frames, so they stick lower end components on it to get it into a price that's accessible to more buyers?

I see a few problems with the prevailing theory here.

1. If they were just trying to unload high-priced bikes to ignorant (but wealthy) customers, they're going to way too much trouble. Many of these framesets would only be appreciated by an aficionado. The average bike enthusiast or racer might not realize what they were looking at. Pinarello, Bianchi, et al make cheaper bikes, too. If it's the name on the downtube they were looking for, why not sell them a lower-line Pinarello? A lot of these were limited production framesets. These were framesets aimed at the knowledgeable wealthy buyer.

2. If they were going for the "ignorant buyer" market, it seems to me that the words "Dura Ace" "Red" "Super Rec" would attract more wow factor (and dollars) than the framesets that they were pushing. Every cyclist knows Dura Ace from 105 and most know that it represents a serious difference in function and quality (and price). I suspect that less than 10% of BFers can tell you which Pinarello goes where in their hierarchy.

3. These weren't demos -- almost every bike in the shop was built out this way and there wasn't a dirty tire in the place.

Putting all this in the best possible light, here's my theory now: I think they are "place holders".

I'm thinking the cheapo groupsets and wheels are there to occupy space for fit -- and perhaps a test ride for a serious buyer -- but with the assumption that, for a fee, they're going to be changing those components out for the eventual buyer. If they can sell a limited edition $7,000 Bianchi with 105 installed, so be it. But they will also be willing to sell that Bianchi with Super Rec, if you'll pay the upcharge. Given the level of these bikes, it seems like a LOT of wasted low-level groupset stock -- but maybe it's a winning strategy. I would sure like to hear how they work it. (But even if I ask, I don't think they're going to want to talk about that with a guy off the street.)

I'd imagine they have some sort of plan b/c I can't see my theories actually working. At least not for long.

This makes a lot of sense. As much as we all like to go to the LBS and see nice frames tricked out in 7900, Red or Super Record, it cost the shop a lot of money to invest money in their display models with no assurance they're going to sell.
So by putting the nice frames with lower end components on them, it lowers their exposure to risk.
I'm sure a sales person would be smart sell the upgrades to group sets and wheels once a buyer settles on a frame.

edit: it would still, to me, make a lot more sense to have at least one floor model of each frame in a popular size (54 or 56) dressed in the high end stuff.

I'm thinking you've got it.

Those kinds of bikes are typically sold as frame sets and assembled by the shop with whatever components the buyer wants. I doubt there are too many $7,000 bike buyers wanting "lightly used Dura Ace". I'm thinking they are going to want new-in-the-box components. I know I would. No matter if you build up the bike with Dura Ace, Record or Red, you're going to be wrong 2/3 of the time and the stuff that you take off isn't new-in-the-box anymore.

Assemble the bike with 105 for initial fitting purposes then take it completely apart and install the customer's preferred components. A final fitting and test ride and the happy customer is good-to-go.

I agree. There is nothing on the floor dressed with an aspirational groupset. It seems to me, too, that it would be helpful to have two or three bikes in the shop that were already dressed appropriately -- just to be able to point to it and say, "and you COULD have this!"

its also how they're making a profit.. selling a $4000 frame with rival and cheap wheels for $7000. That way, if the customer wants to upgrade components, they raise the price from the already overpriced mark up!

Did you think to ask the sales staff about the mismatch? What is a top end frame to you? All the "top end" frame manufacturers have bottom end frames. Colnago has a wide range of frames but they all say Colnago on them. Perhaps this seller is marketing the bottom end of the top end bikes.

Jay

personally i'd never build an italian rig with japanese parts, not that 105 isn't perfectly functional, just keeping with the whole italian thing... you know

on another note, i've been a shimano rider for as long as i can remember, and recently built up the colnago in my signature with full campy record 10s. i'm very very very impressed with campy, i love it in fact.
the only commentary i have is that the brakes feel way more powerful than my ultegras (which is contrary to what i've read in the past about the brake comparison between campy and shimano, though i haven't yet tried the dura ace brakes, mind you these are 6600, not 6700). And the feel of the actual shifting, the click of the shifters, i can only compare campy vs. shimano as bone breaking vs. knuckle cracking. way more distinct. but the shifting is flawless.

trimming the front derailleur on the campy is much much much better than shimano, 5 positions as opposed to 1, i have not had a problem with cross chaining when i feel the need to do so.

if my cassette wasn't a 13-29 i probably wouldnt even notice the transition from one cassette cog to the next, but up in the lower gears the transition is very noticeable when you're riding a 13-29 + long cage derailleur.

(OP, sorry to turn your thread into a campy review)

keep on keepin on!

someone needs to take a look at this page:

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/ro...nto1-6495.html

wilier cento-uno with 105 at $5687...

this might not be totally on point, but a lot of bikes in the show room come with platform pedals, too. so while they might not be "demo bikes" per se, they are probably showroom bikes. after all, components (even cheap ass components), give you a perspective of what the bike looks like, and, to the untrained eye, will probably look better than just a frameset

... and $5653 with Ultegra 6700.

The bike shop can flip parts for more profit than selling complete bikes...So swapping things out is a fine idea. I would never pay 5,000$ unless it was Dura Ace or Chorus.

Read the thread, Jay. All your questions are answered.

wow, good eye

While I'm from relatively humble roots myself, I know I shouldn't say this, but: maybe the answer to the mystery of this thread lies in the first sentence.

Should have stopped there.

Some frames are just simply way overpriced. Especially the Asian made carbon ones. If you are going to purchase a bike, look at Giant's business model. They offer the same frame with varying components and price them accordingly. To pay over $5k for a Shimano 105 bike is ridiculous when you can get a Giant TCR Advanced with Sram Force for under $4k. You get a 15lb bike made in Taiwan that craps all over a $5k Wiler with 105 IMO.

At least Sram Rival is light and weighs less than my Dura Ace 7800 but I wouldn't pay over $3k for a Rival equipped bike. You shouldn't have to. There are plenty of other options. If you must have a Colnago EPS but can only afford a lower end group. Go Rival as it weighs only 100 grams more than DA 7900.

Two good options,
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-US/....1/3885/36660/

https://www.cannondale.com/usa/usaeng...S3C-SuperSix-3

Even better deal
https://element6bikes.com/special_offers.html

Ignorance rears its ugly head . . . sigh.

Let's just say . . . Al Gore lives not too far down the street. He's made a little over $1 billion in a little environmental sideline since leaving public service. And Al's got one of the "little" houses.

. . . but shifts like crap.

Sorry. I shouldn't participate in threadjacks of my own thread.

Both my original Rival and 09 Rival is flawless. Search the threads and see what the consensus is on Rival.