Roasted

Well, checked out the Specialized today. Helluva nice bike. I was definitely a fan of it. The SRAM Apex is something I could certainly get used to. The bike, as expected, rode great. Would I say it was better than the Trek? Nah. Too close to call... but both were solid rides.

The one thing I was confused over is the Specialized I rode was a 56cm, which felt great. The 54 felt a little on the small side. The Trek 2.1 H3 was a 54, and I remember getting on a 56 by Trek and feeling entirely too stretched out and thinking there is NO way I could ride a 56 (I'm 5 foot 10.5"). But when I got on this 56 it felt great... Comparing the geometry specs, in particular the top tube, reveals that the Trek and Specialized are only 5mm apart (comparing Secteur Elite Apex and 2.1 H2). What the? The difference I felt I don't remember being 5mm, I thought I remember it feeling like a 5 inch difference or something crazy. I can only assume maybe the Trek 56 I tested had a longer stem, so I'm going to give that another go, but like I said, 56 H2 this time around and hopefully a comparable 90mm stem.

So now my goal is tomorrow, I want to check out the Trek 2.1 again.

One thing that kind of disappointed me was the Elite Apex didn't have an external crankset. I guess I just expected all bikes in the 1k + category to have it, but this one did not. Kind of put me off about it. I still liked the bike though, but I want to check out that Trek again... and especially after riding the 56 Specialized I want to check it out even more...

svtmike

Don't worry about the number being different between the frame sizes -- whichever bike you buy, get the one that fits.

That is a let-down that the Secteur doesn't have the Apex crank. Manufacturers cheaping out on cranksets is one of the reasons I've taken to building my own bikes.

Roasted

I'm not really worried about the number differences in terms of frame size. The point is I'm not comparing 54 to 56 of different manufacturers. I'm comparing the exact geometry specs down to the millimeter. I just was shocked to see the Specialized 56 was the right fit for me, yet the Specialized 56 is 10mm longer (top tube) than the Trek 56, yet I felt stretched out on the Trek... it had to have had an ultra long stem that I didn't realize. I'll check it out tomorrow, though. On the spec sheet the H3 56 looks REALLY comparable to the 56 Secteur, which I rode and thought felt awesome. With the Specialized fresh in my mind I hope to ride the 54 and 56 tomorrow in both H2 and H3 to see what I can find out.

But yeah, that was a definite -1 on Specialized to not see an external crank. It makes me wonder "hmm... what else did they cheap out on..." I'm trying not to let that factor into me going to the Trek since it's just a part I could upgrade, but I don't feel as though I should "have" to upgrade parts on a bike that "should" have been on it from day 1 anyway...

svtmike

Trek went cheaper than the rest of the groupset on the crank too -- R600 vs. 105. It's still an external bearing design though.

Both bikes have Tektro brakes. Other than that I don't see any unexpected cheaping out. One minor but nice thing the Specialized has is the stem has four different angles it can be set to, so it has a little more adjustment capability than the Trek stem.

Roasted

Hm, good point there. The thing that sucks about this is it's not like 1 bike sucks and the other is great. They're both great. I just gotta close my eyes and throw the dart and see where it lands. I'll have a better idea tomorrow though.

mtalinm

you sound indifferent enough between the two that I would go with the dealer who is closer and whom you know better.

bikerjp

Check head tube height as well. I think the secteur might have a taller one making the bike feel smaller even with a similar size top tube. I normally ride a 58 and when I rode the 58 secteur it felt a bit small. I was told by the lbs that specialized bike can often size one size larger than other brands. Might be what you experienced.

mtalinm

makes sense...i'm normally a 52 but my 54 Roubaix fits me well

Roasted

Oh I did. I did my homework in that department:

Headtube Sizes:
56 Specialized Secteur - 190mm
56 Trek 2.1 H3 - 185mm
56 Trek 2.1 H2 - 170mm
54 Trek 2.1 H3 - 170mm

I didn't ever ride a 56 Trek. I just sat on it, and felt very stretched out on it. It was an H2. Regardless of the different geometry (H2 vs H3 vs Secteur), I don't see how I could have felt stretched out unless the sucker had an ultra long stem and I sat on it, said whoa no way, and got off before realizing it. Like I said, I suppose it's one thing to be like "oh yeah maybe Trek's frames are just pretty big compared to other brands" but when you're breaking down the exact geometry specs, I just got confused over how the geometry could be relatively similar yet feel so different.

56 Secteur Headtube - 185mm
56 Sectur Top Tube - 565mm
56 Trek 2.1 H3 Headtube - 190mm
56 Trek 2.1 H3 Top Tube - 554mm

So you have pretty similar headtube (5mm difference), and 11mm difference in top tube. But the catch is, the Trek is what I remember being stretched out, yet the Trek is 11mm shorter than the Specialized, yet the Specialized felt great... This confusion has me pretty convinced that maybe a 56 H3 might be up my alley... but I gotta try one out. No sense speculating until I can get that crank turning.

But, then again, if a larger headtube makes frames feel smaller, then MAYBE it's entirely possible that the 56 H2 DID feel stretched out, yet the 56 H3 might feel better yet...

2ndGen

I'm 5'9".

I sat on a 54 Trek 1.5 and a 56 Trek 1.5 and a 58 Trek 1.5.
The 56 was the Baby Bear "just right" fit for me personally.
When I rode it, that's when I really knew it was the one.
I personally love to have the option to stretch out on long rides.
Your size will depend on your personal inseam/torso/arm measurements.

As far as I'm concerned, it's no contest.

Trek...all the way. While I love my CAAD9, the Trek 1.5 was superior on long fast rides.
It's like riding on glass...that's how smooth it is. It's regularly compared to decent entry level carbon bikes.
I miss that high tempo, high speed smoothness from it. That's why a carbon bike is in my future.
The CAAD is a frigin' awesome bullet of a bike, but I'm ready to start putting in some centuries now.

Try out a 56cm Trek just for *****s & giggles.
You just might find the riding experience different than the sitting experience.
And do yourself a favor...while at 15 mph, get up and sprint that female dog!
She's going to set you off as if you were launched by a big rubber band!
It's a really fun bike to ride and again...smoooooth!
Spec can't touch the Trek there.

I think you're at that stage where the ride will have to determine your pick.

If I remember correctly, Trek dealer's closer? Trek's cheaper? 150 5700 group?
And, (IMO) Trek's way hotter looking! But again, that's just my personal opinion.

Hurry up already!



You're missing good riding weather bro!

Roasted

I'd be missing it regardless man. I'm bottlenecked by financial strain, not undecisiveness. Next paycheck I'll be able to drop the cash, so I'm sure then I'll be more of an impulse buyer.

Checked out the Trek tonight. In particular I concentrated on the 56 H2. Took it for a spin. I liked it. It had a 100mm stem, which gave me the feeling that a 110mm stem would be a BAD idea. If anything a 90mm would have probably put me in the sweet spot. But even with the 100mm stem, I liked the ride. I liked it more when riding than I did just sitting on it. At first glance sitting on it I felt like it was too much, but when I rode it I felt much more comfortable. Maybe last time I should have ridden it instead of just sitting on it and tossing it to the side.

I'm definitely siding with the Trek over the Specialized. I just feel a little more at home. I liked the Specialized, but ehh. Maybe not quite for me.

The bike shop also assured me that they will have a 56 H3 available next time I come in since there wasn't one there today for me to compare. Either way next paycheck I'll be walking away with "a" bike. This sucks too because I COULD get the bike now, but I'd be eating ramen for 2 weeks straight...

BarracksSi

Why is that a problem?

Roasted

Gahh. What kills me is I have a 12 pack of ramen here that hasn't been touched in God knows how long... just makes me think "hmm, there's a few days of dinner..."

You're a bad influence bro.

2ndGen

Go to your LBS and tell them that you're considering a Specialized.
Then, get them wet for you to give you a sweet deal.
They might just drop some coin if you tell them you're ready to pull the trigger, but want to ride the H3 first.

If you feel them nibble at that and they offer you something off, give them a deposit on the spot!
That way, you will be an owner of "something" (either the 56 you rode or an incoming H3)!
You can go from dreaming of owning to dreaming or the day you go pick your's up!
Let them know you're ready to buy right there on the spot "if" they give you a better price.

And if they don't budge, no biggie...you just go back and get it with your next paycheck.

2ndGen

Well Roasted, "now" you're getting your priorities right.

gundom66

At least you can get your bike in 2 weeks! I have to wait for my bonus, and if that is not enough, get permission to use some of the tax return money next year! That's a 3-4 month wait! Wait... wait... I have almost 300 hours of PTO! I can cash out! Hmmm... lemme deal with the wife. If I get lucky, I can get it in 2 weeks too!

BarracksSi

Pfffthahahaha....

2ndGen

Listen to us and you'll be broke, but happy!

gundom66

LOL! The way she is with "future funds"? "Pfffthahahaha" is right... But who knows? It's my PTO. It's not like I'm gonna cash out everthing. Only 120 hours to cover up to the 5.2 Madone after taxes.

Oh gawd! I can already feel the knife in my BACK!!! LOL

2ndGen

Would you be interested in a bridge I have in Brooklyn for sale?

gundom66

Roasted

I gotta stop hanging out on these forums. Before I know it I'll have no car, no proper clothes for work, and I'll be looking like skeletor due to lack of proper nutrition. But it's okay, because I'll have several bikes, bicycle shorts, and ramen.

I gotta admit, it was hard to walk away from the 56 H2. Like I said, I liked it a lot, but I just gotta try that H3. I just watched a "bicycle fitting" video which is hosted on the Gary Fisher section of Trek's site. It really put something into perspective for me. Perhaps you guys can chime in with pros/cons or whether or not my outlook on this is right. As someone who likes a slightly more upright position, the H2 and H3 both work for me. I can adapt pretty easily. I can say as an absolute fact I could have bought the H2 and been fine. The H1 I can say would be "lol - no thank you". But I'm into riding for 8 hours at a time, not racing, so my objective may be different than Mr. Armstrong. Likewise, if I go with an H3 I'm at the highest I can go, with "expandability" to downsize if I do want that weekend race position. On the flip side, you can't really turn an H2 into an H3 unless I get a ridiculously arched stem... I have a feeling the 56 H3 may be a winner. As long as the H3 doesn't make the 56 feel longer than the H2, which from the sound of it, it does the opposite, then we'll have a solid winner.

Oh boy. Look at that. 63* tomorrow, 0% rain. 62* sunday, 10% rain. I may have to bust out the mountain bike so I'm not twitching in withdrawal with not riding and having good weather...

So, slightly off topic (sorta kinda) - but this H1/2/3 thing is new for 2011. What did Trek do prior to 2011? Did they have separate bikes all together like Specialized does, where they have their endurance collection and their race collection?

2ndGen

Yep...that's me.

My bike costs more than my car (a 98 Expedition) which BTW I "just" purchased!
I have probably spent $1,000. in cycling gear this year, but have holes in my work boots.
I have no qualms about spending over $300. on a pair of Sidi Ergo 2 Vernices,
but every week can find an excuse to "not" replace my 5 year old work boots.



Only riding the H3 can answer that for you.

Holy Crap! I was thinking the same thing! I'm in NYC!
There's no way that I'm "not" going to ride tomorrow!
I haven't ridden in weeks because of work (6 days), travel and
having my bike at my LBS being built up, but tomorrow, I'm riding!

Closest thing to H-Fitting was "Pro" or "Performance" Fits on their upper level Madone rigs.

Roasted

Well, I know me riding is is what will be the best choice. But my thinking was that it would be easier for me to have an H3 and drop the bars as opposed to have an H2 and raise the bars... I just wasn't sure if that mentality was accurate at all.

Ah okay. I wonder though, what was the "Pilot" in the 2 series? I remember hearing that name and wondering what in the world it was.

2ndGen

The Pilot was a much more relaxed geo bike.
Different animal than the 2.X series.
Definitely more a recreational ride.
But the non-pilot 2.X (even a relaxed geo 2.X)
is something you can ride rather aggressively.