My lips are sealed.

You would think.

Similar to what LeMond & Hampsten said too. LeMond was suddenly getting dropped by previous year's mid-pack wannabes

They must all be doping on the Nyack Ride too.

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

I'm not a lawyer, but - I think that if they offer you immunity you have to testify in a grand jury proceeding. Then, if you commit perjury, they can prosecute you for that.

So, you can't plead the 5th, because you're not incriminating yourself.

(Source: TV shows, the Internet, and South Park).

What could possibly be more important than contesting results from races that were completed more than 10 years ago? The longer history goes, the more important it becomes. That's why they didn't bother to follow a long time ago when the allegations were first seriously made.

I say we do this for all sports as ignoring that premier events as the Super Bowl and the World Series were "won" by teams that relied on players that doped and the results should be invalidated.

Aside from correcting history, this will stimulate the economy as the litigation will go on practically in perpetuity thus creating more jobs.

such tough talk, name-calling even. real impressive. I bet you're as much of a nuisance in real life as on a message board.

no, you completely missed the point and the logic of his post. he was basically using the same reasoning as you. stop foaming at the mouth and try to comprehend what you read.

"shut up", good one. nice maturity. goes along with your adolescent reasoning skills.

I'm not a huge Lance fan, don't own any Livestrong gear, anything commercial related to Lance. I do own a green/neon green Nike jersey that I bought on sale. your attack on my supposed dream-like adoration is evidence of you once again missing the point, which is that the PEDs didn't make him that much better than everyone else, and that his battle with cancer set him apart mentally and physically.

What I despise is the witch hunt, and all the bashers that want to bring him down bc most of them are losers that will never do anything close to what he's done, on the bike, in business, for charity etc. I despise how this will taint public perception of the sport.

again, he never tested positive, that's fact.

Well .... actually he did, but then they magically became un-positive.

Anyway ... testing & doping are not always related.

The pro-doping sites have plenty of specific information about how to beat the various tests. For the most part, the riders who have been caught are the ones that made a mistake of some sort.

It's your, not you're, smart guy.

You don't think having Ferrari and the best resources didn't set him apart from his other doping competitors? There are different levels of PEDs, and I'm sure having the best resources help him get the best stuff.

All of the bashers? Look at how many people Lance has bashed and ruined their lives.

This is great for the sport, it's putting another hamper to dopers and allowing clean riders an opportunity. Not everyone was doping like Greg Lemond, and dopers took him out of competition.

You crack me up with the line, "again, he never tested positive, that's fact." What you're telling me is that it's okay to cheat as long as you don't get caught. Or, you're telling me that the current drug testing is so accurate that it would catch all of the dopers.
I apologize for using "shut up", but it's just so ludicrous to bring up about Lance never testing positive. Why do you even say that? It's like you're trying to lose all of the credibility that you have.

https://www.velonation.com/News/ID/39...detection.aspx

Example of a rider who had been doping and only got caught because he made a mistake. If you think Lance didn't have resources Frei could only dream of you're an idiot.

when I say he never failed a test, that is all I'm saying, not what you imagine I really mean. go back and read some of my posts from earlier and maybe my position will make sense, or you can keep attacking the straw man with faulty reasoning. I am not saying cheating is ok so long as you don't get caught, nor am I saying that since he never failed a test, bc testing is so accurate that means he never doped. I understand there are ways to mask what's being tested, as well as bribes, collusion etc. should I type that again?

he never failed a test. deal with it. he did have a prolonged near-death experience with cancer that profoundly changed him. those are facts. your expert speculation about "better Drs, different levels of PEDs", is just that, speculation. or maybe you know from experience, whatever.

the recent article in Bicycling about the amateur masters level doper that wanted to "experiment" with PEDs, told USA Cycling about it, and is now promoting his book about it? disgusting drivel in my opinion. reminds me of the sick fascination with vampire movies.

it is what it is, practically the entire peloton was doping then, using EPO, steroids and transfusions, according to Hamilton (who also has a book to sell). but still Lance prevailed. that's my point. for lack of a better phrase, hate the game, not the player(s).

I doubt we'll ever see the grand jury transcript. At least in north carolina its a closed process and only the prosecutors, law enforcement, and witnesses are allowed in. No defense attorneys, and certainly not transcript. Repeat what is said in a grand jury proceeding here and you very likely will go to jail.

On the bright side, if enough cyclists testify that the only way to be competitive is to dope, that may open a loophole for Lance, with the defence that he'd have been wasting the Post Office money if he hadn't doped like everyone else.

I read all of your post, and I still don't understand why you keep bringing up about he never failed a test. What point are you trying to make?

Anyways, since you still think it's okay that he cheated since that was part of the game, here is a post from www.letsrun.com by a former professional cyclist in Europe for a pro-continental team. This post may not be from an actual pro(he could be pretending), but I think it rings true. https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_re...4051978&page=5

"I am a former professional cyclist. I competed briefly in Europe for a pro-continental team. I wasn't very good but I did see a lot of clean athletes trying to break through and I just want to put to rest this idea that lance doped in a culture of doping so it was a level playing field.

YES it was a culture of doping and YES if all his TDF results were nullified his successor would almost certainly also be doped.

1) However, there are hundreds of clean pro cyclists who, skipped college to pursue a dream, also biked 4-6 hours day, and earned 15-25k a year for a relatively short period.

I have friends who train like mad men and are unemployed or drawing a meager wage because doped riders jump past them and suck up money.

If lance et al. had not doped there would have been CLEAN athletes who would have extended their careers and increased their wages. They wouldnt have won the tour de France but they would have been more competitive in races. Velonews has a report on a rider right now who quit postal because he decided he did not want to do drugs and felt he had no other choice.

2) Dopers suck money out of the sport. Teams fold and clean cyclists, team managers, mechanics, and soigneurs lose their jobs when these scandals come out. For every doping scandal there is a financial fall out that hurts people that are just trying to make a decent living working in a sport they are passionate about. When Floyd Landis's scandal broke, I was actively seeking a pro contract, and saw first hand how the scandal had a ripple effect that went all the way down to the grass roots of the sport. MOney that would have been there for young developing cyclists disappeared.

3) Lance has not just denied doping he has vindictively destroyed careers, smeared people in the name of extending lies. He does not deserve a break in any way. He seems to have a Godfather morality where anyone who breaks away from the "family" deserves to be destroyed.

Take the example of Simeoni, when Lance chased down that breakaway. I cannot even begin to express how crucial those early breaks are in the TDF for a riders career. Getting in the early break, something that is never shown on TV, is incredibly difficult on so many levels. When a rider gets in a break, on a TDF stage where the GC teams are trying to let a break go, that is their BIG shot. Their Eminem lose yourself moment. When Lance chased down Simeoni he was essentially destroying a man's once a year opportunity and directly harming his ability to put food on his kids table all because he decided to start telling the truth. He also directly affected everyone else in that breakaway who wasn't even involved. When Simeoni dropped out of the breakaway so Telekom would stop chasing it was an incredibly honorable thing to do where he sacrificed this career changing opportunity so that his breakaway companions could have a shot at a life changing TDF stage win.

He has dragged Betsy Andreu's name through the mud all because she decided not to be a wife who accepts immorality. She decided not to silently accept a culture of doping. She's not even a cyclist but Lance has publicly trashed her name and drug her through the mud because she told the truth.

He has trashed journalists, former employees, newspapers et al. who have only told the truth.

He lied in order to get a multi million dollar bonus from a company that had insured his bonus for winning the the TDF. He cost that company millions of dollars in legal fees and the pay out and don't think that didn't cost honest people jobs.

Lance Armstrong is an amazing athlete, yes. But the man has done things that are reprehensible to continue lying. Lets not make excuses for him because he's a great athlete."

What age are you guys, 10 years old?

Li estrong, easy... i'm going to wait for more than the usual 'he said, she said' news that keeps getting trolled out though, & then the idiots everywhere playing lawyer like it's some dramatic law & order episode regarding doping, it's not... it's about fraud.

in related news, lance lawyers up again...
https://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawd...ore052111.html

I doubt it. Kids on Roblox and ClubPenguin are mature by comparison...

Hey, I've always been a Lance fan. But I'm a fan of his near death experience followed by his brilliant cycling comeback. Anyone who thinks that was all due purely to doping (assuming he was doping) really doesn't get it at all. Made possible by doping perhaps, but in an era where the entire peloton was juiced, so all of it: the riding, the tactics, the team selection, the training, etc., all of that is what won those Tours. The EPO and doping just leveled the playing field. In other words, a remarkable story no matter how you slice it. The sordidness here was endemic to the sport itself, and has been for decades, it just got amped up by newer phrama technology in the last 20 years.

But I've never been a fan of his take no prisoners tactics to enforce this whole Lance Code of Silence thing. In the end that was always sort of doomed to fail. Ultimately it's a testament to how focused and smart Lance is that he got away with it and kept the whole thing under wraps so long. But the hubris inherent in thinking the truth would never come out is clearly evident. The big monkey wrench in the whole machine is that the primary sponsor during those years, Postal Service, was a U.S. government entity. Were it a private corporation, no government connection, no Fed investigation, and the wall would have remained intact. So as smart as Armstrong is, he didn't figure that one out.

The Lance haters are as imbecilic (moreso even) than the Lance fan boys. The real truth of course lies somewhere it between. It always does. Truth is rarely black and white. It's almost always grayscale. I do believe that truth and the light of day and transparency are good things. And if Lance has to crash and burn so the sport can have that at long last, that's the gamble he made when he first took PEDs as a competitive cyclist.

Time to pay the price.

Jeez, pcad, you're waxing quite eloquent here. And quite right to boot.

you're talking like this is over...

he's playing this out like all of the others, scorched earth all the way. he has the money & will to drag this out too... & he kind of has to protect all of his interests, livestrong.org (non-profit), livestrong.com (profit), etc. this has the potential to make barry bonds look like someone fighting a traffic ticket. maybe he'll make $ off of the movie.

And even back then, (before I realized the USPS budget was no longer part of the general fund), *why* was USPS spending $32M to sponsor cycling???

I get the impression Novitsky has a woody for LA, and would give immunity to everyone and anyone *except* LA, just to have him mounted and stuffed on his wall. I think the time has come for all former and current pro cyclists to hold joint press conferences and tell the world the facts of what has been, (and still is), going on wrt to doping.
What would the authorities do?
Try to lock them *all* up?

If Hincapie has indeed turned state witness for the Feds, it may not be over, but the fat lady is tuning up. The problem for Lance is that if you get 2-3 former team mates with low credibility to say 'we were all doping' but then you throw in a couple of team mates with high credibility (i.e., Hincapie, Andreu), that's pretty compelling to me if I'm on the jury. The reasonable doubt starts becoming less reasonable.