I personally like red as an accent to the black / white frame:

http://i759.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps360af2c6.jpg

Mango would be my 2nd choice:

http://i759.photobucket.com/albums/x...psbcd799ec.jpg

Well, with all the stupid wind around here I can't hear any sound my wheels are making.

Yeah, Texas too. But there is also no shortage of chip seal.

I just got back from the wheel shop and I wanted to notify that Jude explained to me that the SUPER sapim IS in fact a stiffer spoke WHEN tensioned and crossed. I dont remember the details but she said the Super is an upgraded metal and therefor does not need as thick or wide as a diameter as the CX Ray Sapims. She showed me both the sapim and super sapim next to each other. The Super sapim was in fact thinner and not as stiff but she assured me that it is a stiffer option, but not needed. This is where I find forum research to be frustrating. Several people on here told me that I should stay away from the Super option because it was not going to be as stiff because it was thinner along with some other info. I didn't know any better and so I assumed that ya'll were right because many one here have more knowledge about wheel building and experience with cycling that i do. She told me that I was misinformed and the information is incorrect. You can tell me I'm wrong or that she is, But when it comes down to it, I will trust her more so at this point than anyone here.

This was her offer:
"Nick, tell you what. It sounds like you are really wanting to get the supers because it satisfies you mentally that the overall weight of the wheel is lighter (Even though I dont think you need it). If you decide to go with the Supers, I can check the availability and get back to you on an eta. For the meantime i can build them with the CX Ray and once we get the supers in, I will rebuild your wheel with the supers. If you go out and feel that they are flexing on you, bring them back and I will put the Regular CX ray sapims back on"

That sounds like a win win to me! only issue is, she got back to me on availability and it would take 12 weeks to have the supers imported from Belgium? Maybe the 40g difference isn't worth the extra $100. BUT I have spent a lot of money in other places of my bike to save less weight than that. If I'm dropping $1k on wheels, I might as well spend the extra $100 now to get it set up the way I want. I'm gonna see if she will order the supers, pay for the supers, but install the regular sapims for now and then swap them out for the supers when they come in. I Just sold my boyds today and now have no wheels other than the demo wheels. Wish i would have planned it out better on when I sold my wheels but I was able to get TOP dollar for them from a co worker and i didn't want to lose the opportunity.

I will have to see what she is able to do. BTW I will be doing a 24f/28 back. Hub choice was selected but I'll keep a bit of s surprise for now ;)

EDIT: She just got back to me and said that we are good to go. She will start my build this week and put in the order for the supers. She did say that they are new to the market and that there could always be a chance it takes longer or they pull back from sending them all together and wants me to be aware that it may be a possibility.

I feel that jude has gone above and beyond what i would expect any other shop to do for me. I cant say enough good things about my experience with sugar wheel works. I'm so excited!

red, absolutely red

You should go with red. I was pricing out that exact build a few days ago, and I wanted red. I can't afford it now, so you should buy them and sell them to me later.

BTW, here's what the wheels look like with a non-purple pewter hub (or maybe it's just silver):

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8108/8...955416b7_b.jpg

On a related note, a 700x25 Conti GP 4000S measures at just over 28mm on this rim.

Nick...lots of engineers helping to confuse you on here...so add me to your list.
This was discussed earlier but worth repeating because the concept isn't too complex.
The alloy of the steel is pretty much irrelevant to the flexibility of the spoke. This may seem counterintuitive but it is true.
In engineering parlance..the property is called modulus of elasticity. So most steels stretch the same with the same level of stress aka psi.
So how do steels differ? In their yield strength....the will fracture at different levels of load.
So...if the spokes you are considering are all steel...all you need to know. The rest pertains to cross-section.
If you know the cross-sectional differences, you can determine which spokes are more or less elastic for the same load.

If you want to corroborate Jude's advice, you can probably find your answer on the web or even on the forum...but steel type doesn't matter for flex...but does for ultimate yield strength. The rest is left to spoke cross-section. A narrower spoke...or smaller cross-sectional area spoke will flex more for the same load.
Hope that helps.

It won't.

Why not? Jude's assertion that steel alloy matters relative to wheel flex isn't true. Maybe there is something lost in the translation here.
Spoke cross-section matters a lot...so does spoke count...but not spoke material differences..which was mentioned.

that does help, thank you. IF i remember what she said correctly, (which I'm not sure I do) I'm doing a 24F/28R with a 2x on the front and 2x rear with a non cross (Dont know the technical term) on the drive side

So here is the build:

HED C2 build
Black CR ray Sapims 24/28, which will be swapped out with Super sapims when they are delivered
Chris king R45 hubs - color will be reveiled later :thumb:
Veloplugs
Black nipples

will run:
specialized ultralight tubes
Specialized turbo pro 23mm tires

SO EXCITED!! Thank you all for the help

probably radial non drive side

Nick...I know Jude has been great to work with and no doubt an excellent wheel builder...but have you considered picking up a wheel stand
and buying the parts and building them up yourself?

has someone just opened a can of worms? let the split hairs fly! :)

OP, if a decision is ever to be made you will eventually have to choose your source of truth. i would suggest independent study. separate and apart from a forum. regardless of how well-meaning the advice.

i have found the school of hard knocks to be expensive on occasion, but even then, well worth the price. most will find it too arduous though.

That is, effectively, what I'm saying. There are mountains of good literature out there on synesthesia. You can just start with the classic "kiki/bobo" test and read from there on color/glyphs, sound/feel, etc.

I think that lateral stiffness can be far better perceived, particularly by heavy riders in hard turns. Vertical stiffness - "softness" of a ride over sharp surfaces - is mathematically barely different from wheel to wheel. Differences in vertical deflection, for a wheel appropriate for the rider's weight, is most often equal to the thickness of a sheet of paper. I'm not saying that there aren't differences, just that a good deal of the time they're below a level of tactile perception...unless of course one is as sensitive as the proverbial princess with a pea under her stack of mattresses.

But sound paired with every other sensation can profoundly shape the perception.

You be the judge of whether perception is reality.

The bike is a beautiful Black Tuxedo with a white shirt, why would you decide to wear brown shoes with such? Black the the color the hubs need to be.

to be honest, no I haven't. For the price i'm getting this wheel set, I'm barely paying anything for the cost to have her build them. For me this assures that they will be done right. To be honest I really have no interest in building my own wheel. Call me crazy or whatever, I just dont want to. I'm sure it could save me some money down the road and some may have the self satisfaction doing themselves, but its not an interest I have right now.

OOHHHH I like that! well said :thumb:

The gold hubs would be a magnificent rolex under the tuxedo jacket.

SLAP'ADO!!! good come back!

: D

Although you state your case well, I still disagree.
I have owned a lot of road bikes. I have owned a lot of wheels. I have run many different wheels on the same road bike. Some wheels (same tires) rattle your teeth on rougher roads and some feel softer. I also listen to music. I don't hear much whats going on outside.
I can 'feel' the difference. Perhaps you can't but I can.
Fulcrum in fact charts 'comfort' on their wheel performance comparisons. Do you believe this comfort differential?...their higher end wheels are rated stiffer and 'less comfortable.' Not flattering for a high end wheel, but the truth. You are essentially saying their definition of comfort is a misnomer and should really be rated in terms of sound...either signature or db level? I think not.

So when I pay next to nothing for a service, I should rest assured that it will be done right?

Just playin. I know what you mean. The wheel build sounds perfect. I'm interested to see the color choice!

his entire post was based and about what one hears. no wonder you disagree!

The build that you quoted sounds excellent, but stand by my assertion that the CX-ray spoke will result in a marginally stiffer build (ie deflection for a given load), simply by benefit of having a larger cross sectional area. I will note that the super spoke build may be as strong.

Super confusing, and somewhat counter intuitive, but strength and stiffness are not the same thing. I paid a lot of money to have that fact drilled into my thick skull. ;-)

In other words, proceed as planned, save for the final spoke switch step.

Still pulling for mango. Think not of the bike that you own now, but the one that you will soon need to complement those fine wheels. N+1 and all.

If the difference is only discernible through hearing, then with music in the ears no difference whatsoever should be discernible.