The imaginary benefits of modern race equipment
03-08-13, 08:25 AM
#52
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If a product is something I don't own then it's a pointless gimmick and the only people who would buy it are only out to show off how wealthy they are and what posers they are.
If it's something I do own then it's essential to the sport and the only reason anyone could possibly justify not having one is if they can't afford it, in which case they're wasting their time taking part at all.
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03-08-13, 08:59 AM
#53
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Oops, I meant to say while climbing. Sprinting is another example of when STI is far, far superior to DT shifters.
03-08-13, 09:02 AM
#54
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Nice job on the rant SJ. Nachoman approves.
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03-08-13, 09:05 AM
#55
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I think you missed the OP point about cages and straps. When cages are properly used they are just a secure (if not more secure) than clipless. The problem is that most people do not use cycling shoes with the cages nor do they tighten them down enough. People use regular tennis shoes rather than stiff cycling shoes that are made for toe straps. I believe that toe straps are still used in some velodrome races because they are more secure and those guys can rip the feet out of clipless.
The problem with properly set up toes straps is that you have to reach down an loosen the strap prior to pulling you foot out not really safe in traffic for you average rider. Clipless are better imo because the are easier to use and safer.
The problem with properly set up toes straps is that you have to reach down an loosen the strap prior to pulling you foot out not really safe in traffic for you average rider. Clipless are better imo because the are easier to use and safer.
If there is anything more modern I have to have, it's clipless pedals.
03-08-13, 09:26 AM
#57
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03-08-13, 09:28 AM
#58
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A step in the right direction but still not as easy to shift and certainly not while climbing hard or sprinting.
03-08-13, 09:28 AM
#59
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I just switched to clips and straps on my track sprint bike. Big, burly double straps and an aluminum slotted cleat and my feet are more secure than anything out there. It's an advantage in sprint events. The advantage of clipless is you get most of the retention of a strap setup, but you don't have to futze with the strap; you have to loosen them when you go to get your foot out and your foot falls asleep when the straps are too tight. There are a couple sprinters at my track that use clips and straps; one mass start race had one of them pulling their foot on the last lap sprint because the straps were set up too loose to keep his feet comfortable during the longer race.
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"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Last edited by Brian Ratliff; 03-08-13 at 09:41 AM.
03-08-13, 09:31 AM
#60
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A high end modern bike is not going to turn a plow horse into a thorobred. And stronger riders will beat weaker riders even with inferior equipment.
But at the margin with 2 virtually equal riders, the 5lbs, the better shifting, the more aero is going to be the difference.
But at the margin with 2 virtually equal riders, the 5lbs, the better shifting, the more aero is going to be the difference.
03-08-13, 09:33 AM
#61
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03-08-13, 09:36 AM
#62
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Once you have barcons, and STI is invented, it's a small step and a huge advantage to switch to STI.
A lot of the OPs discussion is a simple exercise in confusing "sufficient" with "optimal". The newer stuff is closer to your optimal bike than the older stuff; however, the old stuff is sufficient. There is no racer throughout history who will give up the chance to ride a modern 2013 bike and components. Warp time and give Coppi or Merckx or Hinault a high end 2013 road bike in the middle of their respective careers and they'd kiss you on all four cheeks.
A lot of the OPs discussion is a simple exercise in confusing "sufficient" with "optimal". The newer stuff is closer to your optimal bike than the older stuff; however, the old stuff is sufficient. There is no racer throughout history who will give up the chance to ride a modern 2013 bike and components. Warp time and give Coppi or Merckx or Hinault a high end 2013 road bike in the middle of their respective careers and they'd kiss you on all four cheeks.
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Last edited by Brian Ratliff; 03-08-13 at 09:40 AM.
03-08-13, 09:39 AM
#63
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Barçons work great but it's still not as convenient to shift as STI and if you're in a competitive situation being able to be in exactly the right gear all the time is a benefit.
03-08-13, 09:51 AM
#64
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Once you have barcons, and STI is invented, it's a small step and a huge advantage to switch to STI.
A lot of the OPs discussion is a simple exercise in confusing "sufficient" with "optimal". The newer stuff is closer to your optimal bike than the older stuff; however, the old stuff is sufficient. There is no racer throughout history who will give up the chance to ride a modern 2013 bike and components. Warp time and give Coppi or Merckx or Hinault a high end 2013 road bike in the middle of their respective careers and they'd kiss you on all four cheeks.
A lot of the OPs discussion is a simple exercise in confusing "sufficient" with "optimal". The newer stuff is closer to your optimal bike than the older stuff; however, the old stuff is sufficient. There is no racer throughout history who will give up the chance to ride a modern 2013 bike and components. Warp time and give Coppi or Merckx or Hinault a high end 2013 road bike in the middle of their respective careers and they'd kiss you on all four cheeks.
But since this thread is about "race equipment", it's a lot easier to identify the advantages of certain equipment innovations.
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03-08-13, 10:08 AM
#65
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Cat 3 pack fodder.
For me, I'm so far from optimizing the engine that the marginal differences in equipment pale by comparison.
I've won on a steel lugged bike with D/T shifters, and I've been dropped on a$10,000 plus CF bike.
That doesn't change the fact that high end modern equipment is better than vintage, and would make a difference at the margin.
For me, I'm so far from optimizing the engine that the marginal differences in equipment pale by comparison.
I've won on a steel lugged bike with D/T shifters, and I've been dropped on a$10,000 plus CF bike.
That doesn't change the fact that high end modern equipment is better than vintage, and would make a difference at the margin.
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03-08-13, 10:11 AM
#66
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Clincher tires of today are way better than clincher tires of old. Lighter, more supple, more grippy, less rolling resistance, higher pressure.
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03-08-13, 10:11 AM
#67
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No I can't afford a new bike. But for some reason, my buddy thinks the reason he is kicking my ass on the hills is because he is riding a 17 Lb Madone and I'm riding a 22 lb steel Allez. When I point out to him that I've gained 25 lbs since college and he's only gained 5 lbs, I get "yeah, but a lighter bike would still make you faster!". It would, but I'm not going to spend 3K to change my overall weight disadvantage from + 25 lbs to only + 20 lbs. That would result in me being 3K poorer, and STILL having to watch him kick my ass up the hills.
By the way, there are plenty of younger, FATTER guys than me riding carbon fiber, and I can smoke them. I don't fault them for riding nice bikes - If I were buying one today, I might buy carbon fiber. If you're Eddy Merckx, you need the best. If you THINK you're Eddy Merckx, you're going to THINK you need the best - regardless of what that damn bathroom scale is telling you!
By the way, there are plenty of younger, FATTER guys than me riding carbon fiber, and I can smoke them. I don't fault them for riding nice bikes - If I were buying one today, I might buy carbon fiber. If you're Eddy Merckx, you need the best. If you THINK you're Eddy Merckx, you're going to THINK you need the best - regardless of what that damn bathroom scale is telling you!
03-08-13, 10:16 AM
#68
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If we are racing for mythical things, could we race for a unicorn too? Because back in the day, unicorns were far superior to modern horses.
03-08-13, 10:29 AM
#69
You Know!? For Kids!
I want to respond to this thread, but will refrain until my new high modulus CF keyboard arrives from Italy, in order to be able to respond better and faster.
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03-08-13, 10:34 AM
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you must be a union rep for the unicorns (unioncorn); everybody knows that horses faced widespread discrimination and were constantly harassed due to the prevalent unicorn nationalism.
03-08-13, 10:35 AM
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If that's what you believe, you're wrong. The majority of mid to high end owners spend the money for the enjoyment of owning the bike.
03-08-13, 10:36 AM
#72
You Know!? For Kids!
If I want to go faster, I just wax my chain more.
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03-08-13, 10:38 AM
#73
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I agree they ride much better. Not sure how much of a difference it makes in time, but certainly better road feel, etc.
03-08-13, 10:38 AM
#74
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03-08-13, 10:40 AM
#75
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You are clearly a Revisionist. The horn was a significant aero advantage, as well as a convenient bottle opener.