surgeonstone

Why would anyone not sleep naked. Crazy.

Herbie53

So what you are saying is you could be paid to ride one... sounds like you are coming around.

The dark side beckons.

BillyD

@RollCNY, what's wrong with that article, what part is giving some guys so much angst?

surgeonstone

Sexist stereotyping pigs. The nerve.

sbxx1985 

A buddy got his psimet 50/58s (White Industries T11s, CX Rays) on Friday. Put them on that night and raced Mt Evans the next morning. First ride on his first carbon hoops was a climb to 14,265ft and a descent to 7500ft. Ballsy.

He said they were great. He did come rushing into the trailer during the descent. Hail.

surgeonstone

What I was thinking.

surgeonstone

I'm really glad I'm a vegataria.....I mean Flexitarian. All that blood and feathers and crap, ugg.

surgeonstone

Carbo Fiber on mine.

RollCNY

I just skimmed it, but my thought would be:

Pros are riding the lightest frames possible, and it is not uncommon for these frames to be 900 grams or less. Pros also put out power on a scale most of us can't fathom. So if a crazy light frame breaks under a crazy high load, what does that mean for you and I? I dunno.

Most production carbon frames seem to be 1200-1400 grams. That's 50% more material. Most amateur riders put out maybe 25-30% of the power of the pros.

I ride with a group that I consider strong, and 50-60% of the guys race and crash. None of their frames have broken, but I have seen 3 10 speed chains snap on rides. Chain snaps scare me far more than random frame failures.

But that is all just my opinion. Human nature is to look for evidence to support your beliefs, and discount evidence to the contrary. It is how we deal with thousands of daily decisions without going nuts. I am not saying that you are doing that, only that it is what we all do to some extent to not second guess every decision.

I briefly owned a carbon bike (BMC, but sans Magic™), and the first time a rock bounced off of it my brain said, "Oh my god, I'm riding a distributor cap!". I knew at that moment that that would bother me every time, so the bike wernt back. But that is entirely in my head, and no indictment of carbon.

Heathpack 

I don't think I can just swap wheels. The Madone is 10-speed vs the BMC is 11-speed. So I'm not going to just swap wheels for a little ride, right?

I can upgrade Madone to 11-speed with all new parts for $700 (which I'm not planning on doing, but it's not 100% out of the question), then have only 1 power meter which if I went with the power tap would be around $1700 for the PM + changes to Madone. BUT the Madone has the carbon wheels, which I like but I don't think I'd want on the BMC, the braking is just so much better on the BMC with the regular rims, the descents are much more fun. Or I guess I could look into the carbon wheels with alloy rims that @Hermes mentioned but I'm sure that's pretty pricey.

Or I could go with two power taps for $2000 and keep the 10-speed gearing on the Madone, and use both sets of wheels.

Or I could go with the Garmin Vector pedals for around $1700, have to change pedals between ride & probably have a greater risk of damage if I have a crash.

So no matter what I do, the cost is within $300 for the various options. Honestly the two power taps is most expensive but seems like the easiest option.

H

Heathpack 

What article are you talking about?

3alarmer 

...for myself, besides the obvious fact that any racing for me is way back in the dimmest recesses of
my selective memory (where I was both fast and sweet ), it's the nature of the material that makes
it very hard to spot a problem that might be progressing (like a ding becoming a crack becoming a face plant),
and the by now obvious instantaneous failure mode.

I just don't got the cajones for that much excitement in my life any more.

3alarmer 

...it's going back and forth in a couple of the other threads in road. (from the NY Times) Look for carbon fiber in the thread title.

3alarmer 

...I think the real snarky action is in the ripoff thread, though.

3alarmer 

...I'm driving down next week after we get back from the lake, so we can stage the intervention.
Do you have a particular favorite motel nearby where we can get a deal on the room for a few days ?

RollCNY

But you realize, of course, that is just one of the many lies that we tell ourselves so that we continue doing our dangerous pastime. I have had a cleat screw brake, welding me to the bike. I have accidentily unclipped, almost wrecking myself. I have had bolts loosen up over time, so the handlebars dislocate in a sprint. These were all steel failures, all could have been caught by preventative maintenance, and I actually think I am better than most at keeping up on my bike maintenance. It we all UT'ed our frames everyday, or did dimensional checks for tube necking, I would agree. But we don't, yet convince ourselves it's safer.

BillyD

This is exactly what's going on in that thread, and to be honest, yes, it was comforting to read confirmation of what I have felt strongly about for a long time. But on the other hand it is hilarious to witness the extent to which the extremists in that thread are frantically trying to discredit the article . . . by any means necessary. They've been sweeping the truth under the rug for so long, that to have it exposed in public for the whole world to see is just driving them bat-**** crazy. "The sky is falling, the sky is falling"!

As I said in the thread, "Take it easy, nobody is trying to take away your CF bikes, you can ride whatever you want. It's your decision, you're big boys now".

Heathpack 

Actually we talk about this with dogs a lot. A collie breaks a toe nail and they want to lie down & die, it's touch & go for days. A pit bull on the other hand can be mangled in the most horrible way and walk through the front door of your hospital in good cheer. Cats are even tougher than dogs, the way they can hang in there and just survive is impressive.

Heathpacks Semi-Official List of Wimpy Dog Breeds
Collie
Greyhound, Whippet, Italian Greyhound
Husky
Bichon frise
Irish Wolfhound, Scottish Deerhound

And Heathpacks List of Suprisingly Tough Dogs
Chihuahua
Yorkie
Schnauzer
Corgi
Cocker Spaniel

NonSuprisingly Tough Dogs
Pit Bull
Rottweiler
Mastiff
Any terrier
Any bird dog

And Dog Most Likely to Die of Tragic Complication: French Bulldog

Heathpack 

Life is too short

WhyFi

How well-researched is an article when the only person commenting on the failure mode and value propositions of the bikes is a medical doctor? How unbiased is an article that insinuates that carbon fiber failures, rather than the crashes, are what's "hurling riders to the road"? How objective is an article that is peppered throughout with words/terms like: often, frequently, explode, tend to break, lethal, point of failure? How much integrity does the author have in closing the article with a sales pitch from bike manufacturer and pretending that it's a fearful condemnation of industry malpractice?

Velo Vol 

I saw the daytime front blinkie guy again today. He rides a red and white Trek. #Freds

BillyD

The "a problem at the TDF" thread.

UnfilteredDregs

Good farm, good feed, good birds... I don't see it as messy in the sense it's dirty. It's a lot of work...

Heathpack 

Wut?

Not shacking up in a motel room with you for a few days. But only because I'm in Big Bear this weekend. Otherwise I totally would.

Honest.

RollCNY

I didn't read any posts in the thread, and the little bit of the article I looked at read like a Geraldo Rivera expose. And if the writing style doesn't capture me, I get bored and wander off.