korbjonathan

awesome keep us posted. i work at a trek retailler in northern wisconsin and would greatly appreciate any feedback on these new emonda's

side_FX

Any thoughts on how wide of tires can fit on the Emonda? I'd like a light bike, but I also like a more secure and comfy ride with something wider than 700x23

PaulRivers

The Emonda was both the most secure and comfy ride I've *ever* had on a bike with 23c tires. I felt like it was better than another bike I tried with 28c tires.

Unfortunately, can't answer your exact question though. I would guess it wouldn't fit above a 28c based on it's category, but don't know more than that.

RNAV

I'm rolling on 700x25 tubeless with my Emonda; no clearance issues. I'd be willing to bet 28 would fit without rubbing, but don't know for sure.

MacAttack1115

I just looked at mine to see the clearance. I currently have 23's mounted. It looks like 700x25 should fit but the 700x28 may not be doable (with Dura-Ace/Ultegra brakes). I think the limitation may be which brakes you have mounted. Again this if for the SL. Can't speak for the S or SLR. Here's some pics...

PaulRivers

Thanks for the pics. I don't think it's worth anyone getting to obsessive about - even when one set of 28c's fit on the bike, another could not. Bike tire sizing isn't exact. What I want to know is...will a 28c set of gp4000's fit at 100psi.

side_FX

I really like the new Emonda line. Is anyone who maybe a bit on the heavier side noticing any significant flex? That's my only concern with such a light bike.

Iggz79

..have a SL8 sram since 2 months. Good bike But feels Less stiff than my previous specialized tarmac sl4. For that definately twice more comfortable!!

Iggz79

Ps i'm 72 kg and Yes, lots of flex for Frame, seat Post and front . Could be subjective and Also due to stock wheels But for heavier guys Could be tricky. Try It at your Dealer!

txags92

I am 90kg and test rode an Emonda SL8 and Tarmac SL4 Comp back to back. The Tarmac was definitely stiffer...to the point that it rattled a bit too much for my taste on rougher pavement. The Emonda was very responsive and snappy, but seemed just a bit smoother than the Tarmac. I didn't notice a significant level of flex...just less frame buzz. Trek doesn't list a weight limit for the SL frames, but the SLR frames do have a limit... 275 pounds I believe.

PaulRivers

I own a previous gen Tarmac, and test rode the Emonda. I am not a racer.

I've felt like bike companies have been making bikes feel to stiff. The Tarmac I own always leaves my hands feeling great, but the rest of my body feeling like I was riding something that was to stiff and kinda beat me up. One of the recent Roubaix's I rode felt like it was much worse, and I've ridden several other "endurance" race bikes that felt much the same.

The Emonda felt like it was exactly right - the frame was actually stiff, but wasn't trying to hard to "feel" stiff. I simultaneously felt like I was riding a cloud, but it was a very secure cloud that did not flex. (I've ridden older roubaix's that I thought were flexy).

There's definitely been some debate about whether a super stiff bike actually provides any additional speed, or whether it just feels like it does, at the cost of being more uncomfortable. There's also a theory that more comfort - if everything else is the same - is faster, your body doesn't get as fatigued.

So I'd guess you'd have to ride one yourself.

My personal opinion was that the bike was very stiff without feeling overly stiff like a lot of other modern bikes do. You got the stiffness, without the "getting beat up" fatigue.

Iggz79

I own an emonda after I sold my tarmac. Yes most people having invested in a new bike will subjectively defend that new bike No matter what. I m a little different and honestly I miss my tarmac. That cloud feeling is what I get too. reason why I feel less beat up after a century. But imho beat up feeling is part of cycling. A bike should feel tough and pass on every vibration onto your body. A matter of taste if you prefer riding a mustang or a Porsche. I miss my Porsche I hope this cloudy wabbly front steer comes from the bontrager race stock tyres. Reason I'm upgrading with fulcrum zero s soon... Will keep you posted.

PaulRivers

Ha, interesting, that my impression from my test ride. The one reason to not recommend was if someone was willing to give up comfort for a more "feel every bump and curve in the road" kinda feel. The Emonda had more road feel (imo) than the lance-era madone, less road feel than the last gen madone. Didn't have the sharp handling of the last gen madone...it's a tradeoff, would you rather feel beat up but connected? Or would you rather feel less connected to the road but like you're riding on a cloud?

The Emonda had a lot more road feel than the Domane, though. It wasn't totally disconnected, just not as connected (imo) as a few of the "feel everything" bikes.

Iggz79

Well, domane was made for comfort . Emonda is supposed to be a lightweight climbing bike that sit between domane and madone in terms of comfort. Trek claims emonda doesn't compromise on stiffness. For me that contradicts in a way.

Something more comfortable must compromise on stiffness in one way or the other. In any case tarmac did feel stiffer. In a test tarmac had the highest stiffness values out of 20 bikes tested for 2013. Shame there are no technical test values for emonda but I bet it will never reach tarmac levels.

Also, didnt buy it thinking I'm getting the lightest bike for the money. SL8 mid range bike's weight is only average compared to some German competition - Canyon, Rose with 6.4-6.6 kg within same range and with better wheels. Storck for example offering 850g frame for midrange carbon bikes as opposed to emonda s 1050. Clever marketing to waive a 15000 USD bike as lightest in the world to sell a more affordable range with average weight values and below average wheels.

By the way, its not really super hard to create a sub 5kg bike sold for 15000 bucks. Try creating a sub 6 kg bike offering it for under 5000 bucks while still making money on it. Now that's a tough one and not worth going into for trek. As they say, they know what they are doing

PaulRivers

The fact that you can buy carbon fiber bikes that are unquestionably both stiffer and a better ride than the old school aluminum rattle-your-teeth-out designs shows that it can be possible, to me...

I'm sure they'll be out next year...

I'm not sure if the actual stiffness of the tarmac will be more or not. The Emonda felt like just the right amount of stiffness to me, though I'm not a racer.

But even if it wasn't as stiff, does it matter at all? Where's the stiffness point where you get no additional power out of it? The stiffness wars have had diminishing returns since they started - not sure anyone's proven that stiffness actually makes you faster, and if it does, where's the point where your body cannot possibly produce enough power for stiffness to matter? It seemed like from my riding that we had already way overreached that point.

Ironically, the last headline I saw on specialized.com said something like "more comfortable is faster" - referring to their Roubaix's. Even if it was less stiff, and I'm not saying it was, would improved comfort in a less fatiguing ride offset a loss of stiffness that's already more than your body can produce?

Lol, well that may be.

I know it was the ride, not the weight, that I found impressive. I didn't really care about the weight personally, it was the ride quality that motivates me to try a test ride.

I would agree with not finding the Emonda as "exciting" of a ride as some other bikes. It's not as laid back as the Domane, but it's not sharp balls to the walls in it's feel either. But it's ride quality and vibration reduction were kind of amazing....but while it's the best road feel bike I road that did a great job with vibrations, bumps, and potholes, I would definitely agree that there were other bikes that handled vibrations bumps and potholes worse that had a more "connected to the road" feeling.

Iggz79

Agree, but i was more referring to carbon vs. Other carbon frames.
I am linking more harsh road feel to higher stiffness results in tests in a way trying to explain why the tarmac sl4 from 2013 felt more direct. I'm sure experts will say that stiffness and harsh road feel arent clearly linked nowadays. Would be interesting to hear some opinion or get a tip to an article on this in further discussion.

i read some very positive reviews, some from pros (will lack any criticism if its a trek pro ) went down to my lbs . Test rode it around the block , found it interesting as it was comfortable indeed and ordered it. It was after weeks of riding it especially on longer rides that i could really compare the two and make up my mind. I'm getting used to more comfort its easy to get used to something positive and overall its a good ride but I do miss the purebred roughness of the more cruel tarmac..could be nostalgically linked

Actually, as with a downside an upside must come up, I found the emonda smoother as to holding a straight line . My local club friends noticed the difference as I looked more composed with less bouncing right and left specifically when getting tired. As with tarmac every little move was translated into action i was bouncing more while the ride felt more scatchy. A big plus to those riding behind me

Campag4life

You need to qualify what stiffness plane you are speaking of. Probably all manufacturers and Specialized in particular, have changed the 'ratio' of stiffness for their last three generations of their Roubaixs, Tarmacs and likely all their bikes. What does that mean? They have made their bikes more vertically compliant for a friendlier ride while making them laterally stiffer. They do this by changing the moment of inertia of frame sections. Now with the new Roubaix SL4, they may have screwed the pooch because they basically made the rear triangle almost as stiff as the Tarmac which is said to make the ride in back harsher. But the bike now rides like the tightly wound spring it is. It has more of a race bike feel than say my previous gen Roubaix. You push on the pedals and it has immediate power transfer....like carving on a real stiff racing ski. People have different priorities and I believe even bike nuts like me are a bit conflicted on what we like. For me, I believe I would prefer the Emonda to the Tarmac. No, you won't get maybe the same racebike feedback on an Emonda....its more muted. But I ride on all kind of paved surfaces and many are far from smooth and on a 50 mile group ride, I don't like getting my teeth rattled if there is a bike out there that won't do that. But enthusiast riders also want feedback and many good riders will prefer a Tarmac which overall have good ride quality for a race bike. To me in comes down to preference versus what's better.

Garfield Cat

[QUOTE=Iggz79;17151472]Agree, but i was more referring to carbon vs. Other carbon frames.
I am linking more harsh road feel to higher stiffness results in tests in a way trying to explain why the tarmac sl4 from 2013 felt more direct. I'm sure experts will say that stiffness and harsh road feel aren't clearly linked nowadays. Would be interesting to hear some opinion or get a tip to an article on this in further discussion. [QUOTE]

How about this:

Figure 31. ComfortPly technology adds only the plies needed for performance, none of the plies that can lead to a harsh ride. ComfortPly™ technology uses the same composite analysis software tools not only to optimize strength, stiffness and weight, but also to fine-tune frame properties in two ways: First, we know where to put the stiff fibres and where to put the strong fibers. Second, during layup development, once strength and stiffness targets are achieved, ComfortPly™ technology actually removes unneeded fibres to reduce weight and vibration and improve ride quality.

Iggz79

[QUOTE=Garfield Cat;17151691][QUOTE=Iggz79;17151472]Agree, but i was more referring to carbon vs. Other carbon frames.
I am linking more harsh road feel to higher stiffness results in tests in a way trying to explain why the tarmac sl4 from 2013 felt more direct. I'm sure experts will say that stiffness and harsh road feel aren't clearly linked nowadays. Would be interesting to hear some opinion or get a tip to an article on this in further discussion. I guess technology is far beyong what we can subjevtively feel as mid range bike riders. If you telling me that im having same power transfer or better with my emonda while feeling wabbly comfortable riding it then i got the perfect bike for the money.

Lets step away from what marketing machinery made us believe carbon does to ride comfort. Let me take an very exagerrated example from the world of supercars. Pagani Zonda R - 99 percent made of carbon fiber and claimed to be one of the most direct , stiff supercars money can buy. Pagani says that they use carbon fiber to make the car lighter while having a the stiffest , most direct contact with road surface ever. Now, they d never claim that its a comfortable ride too. Why? Cause in sports car world (which by the way has a much higher R&D budget than cycling world) stiffness and comfort is directly counterproductive.

Unless cycling manufacturers have a higher quality or different quality carbon access than car manufacturers, which i highly doubt, I would say that top guys marketing machinery is trying to sell us something that doesnt truly exist. Brand it comfort ply or soften your ass im not buying it..

open for discussion and if you technically test emonda to be stiffer than tarmac while being more comfy i take everything back and go cry in my shame corner !

Chader09

One key difference between road cycling and race level carbon cars is the suspension. Auto makers use the CF because it is light and stiff.

They want a chassis as stiff as practical (and in some cases... possible), then they use the suspension to adjust handling performance and comfort. That is because the frame is not tunable after the fact while the suspension is through springs and shock valving.

Road bikes don't benefit from suspension for comfort, so frame builders work a delicate balance to make an efficient and comfortable bike in the desired ratio between the two values.

The comparison is much closer between autos and full suspension MTB's since they want tunable "flex" (via suspension) that controls ride comfort and performance.

Iggz79

I had a alloy mtb with a shock absorber in the 90s. Front SA only. Well that bike felt harsh as fukk. Remember the chain hitting frame all the time . Weighed 12kg . My friends were jealous about this bike being light weight compared to their steel bikes. As far as i remember the shock absorber only worked if smashing the front. For general ride feel it was irrelevant . I could adjust softness of the absorber but it didnt help much. Suspension in a mtb has a different function.

Roubaix was in a way revolutionary as the absorber reacts to every shock caused by the surface.

All this waffling could be clarified by a technical stiffness comparison test between emonda, roubaix and tarmac. That would anwer all 3 questions. A) does advanced carbon fiber technology mean more comfort while maintaining stiffness b) does new dampening technology provide more comfort while maintaining stiffness C) does it have to be a harsh felt bike to assure stiffness at the cost of comfort.

PaulRivers

Sure. I think there still exists tensions between "nice ride" vs "road feel" in bikes. They haven't solved the problem with a bike that does both, but they have improved both at the same time.

Haha, well, we all live with the dream of 1 perfect solution to everything don't we? :-)

You could probably still own both and go back and forth - Tarmac "Man, I miss that smooth ride and easier control of the Emonda!", Emonda "Man, I miss that connected and extremely responsive feel of the Tarmac!". :-)

bigdo13

BEAUTIFUL bike.... congrats

tomget

MacAttack1115 thanks for the article..looking to replace my Trek 5200..probably go the SL8..only because I'm old and never had Dura-Ace...this is my last chance

skaterjim

where did you get your bike I would like to get same one. I do not like the sl6 colors