Sorry, arch bump. I have flat feet and that bump hurts me.

Interesting. I wonder what that says about my feet because I thought I had pretty flat feet and I dont feel the arch at all. I wonder if you will feel the same when riding?

I tried two pairs and decided I prefer shoes that are comfortable when I first try them on.

I put mine on just to see if I noticed the arch. After focusing on it, I do feel the arch being a little for me, but it has never bothered me while riding. I would try them out riding to see if it is still an issue.

I just put them on the oven for a third time 4 minutes ago. Lets see if I can get rid of that bump. Tried wearing them while standing up, my right foot ,which is much flatter than the left, hurts quite some just standing. My left foot was OK but I did feel the bump. I'm really gonna put some pressure to mold it now.... gonna ride them tomorrow for the first time.

I would imagine they will feel differently when riding, but I could certainly be wrong.

Rode them on the trainer for about 40 minutes. Left foot is good. There is tons of room in there. My toes touch the front but doesn't bother much (at least for 40 minutes). Left arch is fine. Right arch is not good, not as bad a standing but not good at all. Gonna put a lighter inside my sock and try to mold it again. They are much stiffer than the s works at least and the width is VERY noticeable.

Yeah they are. I really hope you are able to figure out that arch out and are able to enjoy them.

Thank you. We will see tomorrow. I think they have a promising future. Just need to get them dialed in correctly.

Here are some pics for reference.


S works say they are 45.5 but 11.75 US? Bonts say 46.5 and 11.5US? There is something wrong here...



Shimano R087 Winter shoes in 47, a little large but very comfy. Not enough arch support.
Specialized Sworks 45.5. Very tight and narrow but good adjusted fit. Too tight on top where the BOA is
Bout Vaypors 46.5. Very VERY spacious on the front end. Arch support a little too aggressive, even more so than the specialized. feels short for 46.5. STIFF!!



Left foot. Mild arch and around 114mm wide.



Right foot. Flatter than the earth before 1492 and just as wide as the left. This one is a big trouble maker as it is also a bit longer.

Hahahahaha "flatter than the earth".....

I've found the arch "bump" impossible to mold out. Luckily, for me, it is trouble when standing, but disappears when riding. Hate to say it, as they are great shoes, but looking at your right foot, I'd say there is no way they will work for you.

Its a possibility that they may not work, but if you feel it when standing but it disappears while riding and I've never noticed it while riding, but can feel its pronounced arch while standing. There is a chance they could do the same with him. Sounds like he is testing them out on the road today. Hoping for the best!

Maiden voyage today. 50 miles and about 3,500ft of climb. I have to say I like them a lot. The extra room in the toe box is a BIG plus. The stiffness is superb, much stiffer than the S Works. The bigger foot bed made for a better base for my wide feet therefore helping stabilize my stroke. This meant that my knees had to do less effort to stabilize my foot so they hurt less and my Achilles tendon is not sore at all.

Downside - the arch bump is still noticeable. It is a little annoying up to 40 miles, then it becomes painful. I see these shoes being close to perfect for those who have a slight arch or more. 100% purebred flat footed people may have issues.

Overall, for me these shoes are a solid 9/10. Half a point for the bump and half a point for looks and quality finish. Not quite as good looking or nicely made as other high end shoes i've seen.

I'll be keeping them and using them until it's time for a new pair. I am pretty satisfied.

That's really good to hear you also think so highly of them, even with the issue of the arch. I wonder of you should try a very thin insole which may cover the arch? I can't remember the brand off the top of my head but REI has a couple different to choose from that are thin and specific for sports.

I could not keep a shoe that hurt after 40 miles. I heard that Greg Lemond had one foot that was larger than the other. Before he became a pro, he would have to buy two pairs of shoes. There are not many cheap options out there if custom shoes are needed.

I would bake the problematic shoe once more lengthening the bake time to soften the sole further before moulding. You have thick ankles and thin section forefeet. Do you have trouble with regular shoes?

I hear what you are saying about the stiffness compared to Spesh S Works, but the spec on the S Works is a hugely high stiffness number (within their own rating system I suppose). Many still very competent shoes lower in the Spesh line have much lower stiffness ratings. One begins to wonder just how stiff the Bonts could be get that comparative praise. Not doubting you for a minute, but I sure would love to see cutout samples from the S Works and Bont soles tested on an "Instron" testing machine. I think the actual numbers would be very instructive.

Here's a question. If sole stiffness is so important for power transfer and other road racing aspects, don't relatively squishy, flexible insoles/liners (as they all are) degrade or even negate the performance of the sole? Ever the squishiness and flexibility of the foot would seem to negate the stiffness of the sole. How does it not? I'm not talking about isolation of the foot from the pressure points on the pedals, but rather pedaling efficiency.

Very interesting. A quick search uncovered at least two articles reporting testing that showed 5 or 6 time the sole stiffness in carbon composite shoes to plain "plastic shoes" That is likely a comparison of best case and worst case, but it is still impressive. Where the glass-reinforced nylon soles would be on this scale is hard to say, but surely somewhere in between.

What was really interesting was the observation that the stiffer the sole, the greater the stress on the plantar fascia part of the foot very possibly leading to pain and damage. I haven't heard that mentioned before. Once again I wonder how insoles modify this and how they would do it relative to their effect on the desirable aspects of ultra-stiff soles. Here are the links to the articles I found:

https://www.tulane.edu/~sbc2003/pdfdocs/0405.PDF
The effects of cycling shoe stiffness on forefoot pressure. - PubMed - NCBI

I think it's more feel and illusion than actual physics. The fact that th sole is amost 50% wider makes me feel like i am pushing on a stiff beding of carbon whereas before i was pushing the narrow carbon sole plus the side layers of plastic from the shoe sides. There is a big felt difference in the width. Try pushing a 2 inch wide piece of wood with the palm of your hand vs a 4 inch. You will probably feel better pushing the wider piece.

Last post was sitting in a car at a parking lot about to drive off so it may not make a lot of sense.

The sole is not 50% wider, but considerably wider. It also has a curved edge at the end so it wraps a little bit on the side vs the s works being completely flat. On the S works my foot had an extra few mm hanging off the side of the carbon sole. That made the side of my feet push on the vinyl, which is flexy. Therefore that feel.

I think the reason the stiff sole is popular is because it evens out the power output through the entire shoe. The pedal is the pressure point on the shoe, and the stiff sole makes sure that the force applied is spread out evenly through the entire sole. Then it doesn't create much of a hot spot. Once you have that "even" ground setting then adding cushion to your feet is no biggie because the "base" is completely flat across the length of your foot instead of the 2 inch pedal.

Example,

Put a 2 inch diameter cylinder on the floor then push it down HARD with the palm of your hand. It will most likely hurt you.

Put a 6 or 7 inch diameter cylinder on the floor then push it HARD with the palm of your hand. It will most likely lift you of the ground.

Same happens with the shoe.

Go further. Put a piece of 7 inch diameter cardboard on top of the 2 inch diameter cylinder then press it with your palm.

Then put a 7 inch diameter wood piece on top of the 2 inch diameter and push...


etc etc. yadda yadda. I hope this makes sense and I don't get burnt if I'm wrong .

Well the Bonts unfortunately didn't work out for me. I ended up buying another pair of Sworks. The issue I have now is replicating the cleat placement. With my last pair the cleats were placed where my foot was as close to the pedal as possible if I do that now my ankle keeps hitting the crankarm. I tried moving out a bit and now I'm getting medial knee pain. I didn't think I would have any issue staying with the same brand.

I think i'll be shopping for shoes soon enough. Just lost a good chunk of money but well that's life. You win and you lose.

Those two links are to the same study.

what I don't get in that study is how they determined plantar pressure was a problem. The graph shows increased plantar pressure corresponding to increasing wattage output...as would be expected. If they just snatched the 400w pressure measurement out of a data series that went to 600w, wouldn't the pressure necessarily have to be higher at 400w in order to achieve 600w, than the pressure required to achieve a terminal, or near terminal, 400w?

Every time you see a new bike shop, go in and try on shoes. When on vacation in a different city, try on shoes. Eventually you will find a make and model that works for you. Then you can buy your shoes online with less risk of problems.