Which bike do you consider "The Holy Grail"?
11-05-10, 11:35 PM
#251
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11-06-10, 12:32 AM
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Perhaps that's why it has not yet broken the $3k barrier. I was thinking it might sell for $5k and was surprised it was valued so low. Thanks for pointing out those improper components.
I like the vintage pastel green and cream colored bike from about a year ago. I should have kept a photo.
I like the vintage pastel green and cream colored bike from about a year ago. I should have kept a photo.
11-06-10, 12:59 AM
#253
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My grail bike in my racing days was a Masi Gran Criterium, circa '78-82. The Gios Torino SR's of the day were also high on my list, as were the De Rosa's. Those bikes still sit in "grail" status for me, even though I no longer race. A buddy of mine's father (whose Gios torinos were lustworthy back then) still has his De Rosa with low serial number 50th anniversary grouppo on it.
I'd love to find a Singer or Herse porteur or randonneur in my size, but doubt that would happen. My "French fit" size is about 63 -64 cm.
I'd love to find a Singer or Herse porteur or randonneur in my size, but doubt that would happen. My "French fit" size is about 63 -64 cm.
Last edited by canyoneagle; 11-06-10 at 01:03 AM.
11-06-10, 04:05 AM
#254
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Why? Wrong Cranks, wrong pedals, potentially wrong rims (?), wrong rear derailleur, wrong chrome scheme. It looks to me like a typical European restoration. Nice flashy bike with more or less correct componentry, but when you look more carefully, you start noticing everything that was half done.
11-06-10, 07:32 AM
#255
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https://www.gitaneusa.com/images/hist...reators-of.jpg
easy for me , the gitane delta wing tt bike. ive only seen the track version . never have i seen the road tt version . this bike was way ahead of its time in 84. aero tubing , winged handlebars in a time when they were using bullhorns. air tunnel designed at renault facilities .look everyday to see if a ex racer has theirs up for sale . but i dont think they got to keep any of these bikes.
easy for me , the gitane delta wing tt bike. ive only seen the track version . never have i seen the road tt version . this bike was way ahead of its time in 84. aero tubing , winged handlebars in a time when they were using bullhorns. air tunnel designed at renault facilities .look everyday to see if a ex racer has theirs up for sale . but i dont think they got to keep any of these bikes.
11-06-10, 08:09 AM
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11-06-10, 09:06 AM
#257
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I am re-opening this thread to present the bike that I was mentioning some 10 months ago. It is a Giotto Cinelli bike from 1947. Giotto was Cino's older brother and the one who started the handlebar and stem making business. Giotto Cinelli bikes were only made for a very short time from mid to late 1946 until 1948.
This was one of the three bikes I had on display during my seminar at the Philly Bike Expo.
This was one of the three bikes I had on display during my seminar at the Philly Bike Expo.
Do the decal crests have "Firenze" instead of "Milano"?
Is this the headbadge?
What serial number? Is it a random 4 digit one like they normally did?
I'd also be interested to know what bars and saddle and seatpost it has? And what that metal band around the seatpost is. It looks to have a seat clamp style similar to modern bikes (I also have this on an Italian bike from 1948-ish) but there appears to be a band above that.
If that were my size it could be a holy grail bike. Alas it's a little short for me.
Last edited by Wotan; 11-06-10 at 09:39 AM. Reason: More stuff
11-06-10, 10:06 AM
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I have had three Grail bikes by other peoples standards. First I have the 1987 RS 2000 Yellow Cannondale that RCCARDR lusts after. Second, a man came into my shop seven years ago and saw my 1961 Gitane hanging in the rafters and said that was his Holy Grail bike. I had the bike built for me at Gitane when I was stationed in Germany in 1961. It was Campy equipped with the front derailer shifter right above the derailer not on the down tube. The bike was under 20 pounds. The guy went nuts over the bike and offered me insane money for it. Thats what got me back ridding and into vintage bikes. My third bike is a fake 1987 7/11 bike built on 1987 Centurion Ironman frame. The frame was beyond saving the paint when I got it so I painted it like the 7/11 team bike. My Grail has been to find a 7/11 bike and I now have a original Dag Otto 1987 7/11 frame to build up when I get all the parts for it. I raced a bit in the 50's and for the Army team in Germany in the early 60's. I was the envy of all my buddies with my hand built Gitane in 1961.
Ed
Ed
Last edited by EddyR; 11-07-10 at 06:43 AM.
11-06-10, 10:42 AM
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YYYEEESSS!!!! Would love to see some more pics.
Do the decal crests have "Firenze" instead of "Milano"?
Is this the headbadge?
What serial number? Is it a random 4 digit one like they normally did?
I'd also be interested to know what bars and saddle and seatpost it has? And what that metal band around the seatpost is. It looks to have a seat clamp style similar to modern bikes (I also have this on an Italian bike from 1948-ish) but there appears to be a band above that.
If that were my size it could be a holy grail bike. Alas it's a little short for me.
Do the decal crests have "Firenze" instead of "Milano"?
Is this the headbadge?
What serial number? Is it a random 4 digit one like they normally did?
I'd also be interested to know what bars and saddle and seatpost it has? And what that metal band around the seatpost is. It looks to have a seat clamp style similar to modern bikes (I also have this on an Italian bike from 1948-ish) but there appears to be a band above that.
If that were my size it could be a holy grail bike. Alas it's a little short for me.
The headbadge is precisely the one you show. The original cranks are marked G. Cinelli, as was the seatpost clamp which is indeed a modern style. The band that appears above teh seatpost clamp is a typical religious artifact that was commonly seen on bikes in the 40's (including on some of Bartali's bikes). The one on my bike is in fact "wrong" as it is from the Madonna del Ghisallo which would not be period correct for teh 40's, nor is the fact that it is fitted with a philips head screw...) The headset appears to be a Magistroni headset with Cinelli marked on it. The stem is marked Cinelli Firenze and tube that is parallel to the ground stands proud of the handlbar clamp
11-06-10, 10:44 AM
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LOFTER
I have hunted many times for old pictures of my bikes from the 50'-60's but can't find them. More than likely long gone. Recently I found a few slides from a race I entered in Safety Harbor Fl in 1973. It was raining and the picture was taken just befor I fell. I was a sprinter but am buried in the pack so only my wife who took the picture is sure its me.
Ed
I have hunted many times for old pictures of my bikes from the 50'-60's but can't find them. More than likely long gone. Recently I found a few slides from a race I entered in Safety Harbor Fl in 1973. It was raining and the picture was taken just befor I fell. I was a sprinter but am buried in the pack so only my wife who took the picture is sure its me.
Ed
11-06-10, 06:50 PM
#262
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The three existing Giotto Cinelli bikes that are known to me all were lacking the original decals. I therefore spent quite a bit of time speaking to three old-timers from Florence about the design of the decals (over one hundred phone calls and an equal number of intermediate decals). All three were Cinelli shop hangers-on back in the day. Two of them also owned Giotto Cinelli bikes back in the day. One of my consultants has since passed away (I found that out when I wanted to send him a photo of my restored bike) I am not sure that the decal design is correct, but if not right on, it is as close as one is likely to be able to achieve without having an original at disposal.
The headbadge is precisely the one you show. The original cranks are marked G. Cinelli, as was the seatpost clamp which is indeed a modern style. The band that appears above teh seatpost clamp is a typical religious artifact that was commonly seen on bikes in the 40's (including on some of Bartali's bikes). The one on my bike is in fact "wrong" as it is from the Madonna del Ghisallo which would not be period correct for teh 40's, nor is the fact that it is fitted with a philips head screw...) The headset appears to be a Magistroni headset with Cinelli marked on it. The stem is marked Cinelli Firenze and tube that is parallel to the ground stands proud of the handlbar clamp
The headbadge is precisely the one you show. The original cranks are marked G. Cinelli, as was the seatpost clamp which is indeed a modern style. The band that appears above teh seatpost clamp is a typical religious artifact that was commonly seen on bikes in the 40's (including on some of Bartali's bikes). The one on my bike is in fact "wrong" as it is from the Madonna del Ghisallo which would not be period correct for teh 40's, nor is the fact that it is fitted with a philips head screw...) The headset appears to be a Magistroni headset with Cinelli marked on it. The stem is marked Cinelli Firenze and tube that is parallel to the ground stands proud of the handlbar clamp
Did your frame have full chrome underneath the paint? I assume that's a repaint, did you go for the same (or similar) color to the original?
Also, very interested to know what bars you have. My 1948 Italian cambio corsa-equipped bike is currently wearing non period-correct Cinelli alloy bars and I'm unsure if Cinelli steel bars just squeeze into that time frame or whether I should be seeking out some Ambrosios or something else (did Fiamme do bars that early?). Any help would be appreciated.
11-06-10, 10:54 PM
#263
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Fantastic. Gotta admit, I'm pretty jealous! If I wasn't taking receipt of my ten year younger Cinelli SC in a week or two I would be totally green!
Did your frame have full chrome underneath the paint? I assume that's a repaint, did you go for the same (or similar) color to the original?
Also, very interested to know what bars you have. My 1948 Italian cambio corsa-equipped bike is currently wearing non period-correct Cinelli alloy bars and I'm unsure if Cinelli steel bars just squeeze into that time frame or whether I should be seeking out some Ambrosios or something else (did Fiamme do bars that early?). Any help would be appreciated.
Did your frame have full chrome underneath the paint? I assume that's a repaint, did you go for the same (or similar) color to the original?
Also, very interested to know what bars you have. My 1948 Italian cambio corsa-equipped bike is currently wearing non period-correct Cinelli alloy bars and I'm unsure if Cinelli steel bars just squeeze into that time frame or whether I should be seeking out some Ambrosios or something else (did Fiamme do bars that early?). Any help would be appreciated.
11-07-10, 04:43 PM
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02-05-12, 10:02 AM
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w b hurlow
I have a W B Hurlow track bike that I bought in 1968, with WHB cut out of the lugs on the head tube. It is in exactly the same colours as the sw cotten shown on this forum. I am thinking about selling if I can find a serious buyer.
02-05-12, 06:52 PM
#267
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A 1954 Carlton Jewel...the epitome of the classic bicycle.
02-05-12, 07:32 PM
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I just read an article on some guys that toured the world in the sixties. They mentioned there were only two serious framebuilders in their (and my) hometown: Bontekoe and Eindhoven. The bontekoe shop is still around, a legend in dutch racing circles and even mentioned in the works of a great comedian and writer - the other is more obscure. Both made nice, ornate 60's style frames - I'd love to have one!
02-05-12, 08:14 PM
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02-05-12, 09:05 PM
#274
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I don't think is one particular "holy grail" of bikes. Too many fine builders at one time, and now, to say one is better then the other, although if I were to limit the holy grail to a field of bikes it would be almost any bike with chrome lugs and chrome half forks and half stays. I could list hundreds of bikes I like the looks of but it would take forever. Here's one modern example using stainless steel that looks really cool: https://www.andersoncustombicycles.co...ery/index.html
This one is really cool, look closely and you'll see long point lugs just a fantastic look: https://www.merciancycles.co.uk/galle...ery-image/180/
or this Gios: https://www.giostorino.it/telai/gios-super-record-strada
Then this classic: https://www.google.com/imgres?start=5...:429,r:0,s:542
I need to stop, lots and lots of nice "Holy Grail" bikes out there, just to many to nail down to just one.
This one is really cool, look closely and you'll see long point lugs just a fantastic look: https://www.merciancycles.co.uk/galle...ery-image/180/
or this Gios: https://www.giostorino.it/telai/gios-super-record-strada
Then this classic: https://www.google.com/imgres?start=5...:429,r:0,s:542
I need to stop, lots and lots of nice "Holy Grail" bikes out there, just to many to nail down to just one.
02-05-12, 10:35 PM
#275
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I love my current bike and can not imagine a better one.
My father however has alwayes pined for a Raleigh with with 531 tubing. He worked at a bike shop as a youth and this was the bike he always wanted but could not afford. Obviously not the "quality" that others consider their grail, but he would love that as much as anyone would love a bike.
My father however has alwayes pined for a Raleigh with with 531 tubing. He worked at a bike shop as a youth and this was the bike he always wanted but could not afford. Obviously not the "quality" that others consider their grail, but he would love that as much as anyone would love a bike.