why even refer to there status. Undocuments is political whitewashing just as absurd as "homocide bomber." Do what you want but don't insist that other use the same loaded terminology as you do.

They are immigrants because they immigrated they are are illegal immigrants because the immigrated illegally.


There is a huge difference between these terms also.
Death Tax - is like undocuments immigrant and attempt replace and existing term with one that suits your politics better. Use it if you think linguistic manipulation suits your politics but don't try to force other too

Enemy Combatant- is an attempt to create a new legal category of fighters. This is blatantly twisting the law to fit ones politics and much worse then "death tax" or "undocumented immigrant"

War on Terror - is a meaningless term developed to describe something that didn't exist before in a positive light such terms will always exist and are always meaningless.

By lumping these three catagories of "invented" terms into a single group you overstress the damage stuff like "war on terror" does while trivializing legal concepts like "enemy combatant.

I don't believe there will be any meaningful legislation regarding immigration passed this year. Probably some more border guards and some more fences and motion sensors. Nothing about amnesty or staying here while your paperwork is processed. That'll be the compromise.

What's sad is on one hand you've got people that say they can't find work and then on the other you've got people that can't find workers. Too many Americans can't be bothered to do construction work or pick vegetables or fruit or clean houses; that's sad.

It's also sad that Mexico and other countries can't seem to get their ***** together and improve their economies; instead they encourage the emigration of their people. And guess how people working illegally in Mexico get treated.

There is a big something @ Market today. I'm @ work till 4 so I'll be MIA.

LA

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2006-05/23214602.jpg

I'm really mixed on the issue. I find the dialogue, or lack there of, between both sides to be quite disapointing. That opinion is based on the sides representented through the local and national media though. Notorious good at dumbing down any serious debate.

im not posting in this thread as my protest

I'd like to see how the House has prepared the nation to contend with the 12,000,000+ --Felons-- they will create if the current legislation passes.

How many prisons & holding facilities is that?

How much $$$ to get them all back to their respective points of origin?

Do we include persons of european (white) background or just outright target persons of colour to simplify things?

Should we offer tax credits to young fertile women to eventually help offset the labour shortages?

Should we close the borders all together amd return to the glory of isolationism? Many "illegal" persons enter legally and overstay their visa/visit.

Unless you are Native American, you or your ancestors are "illegal immigrants".

I took this photo with my phone in downtown Denver today. I really think we're concentrating too hard on the Mexicans and totally forgetting about the Canadians.

http://static.flickr.com/44/138621554_b249b7ac2d.jpg

THat's Great! It's a pretty fair trade if the number of paperless US citizens I've met up here is any indication. Lots of illegal immigrants in Canada are US citizens. I'm legal now, but wasn't always. Sucks, though the conditions weren't near as harsh for me here as they are for latino immigrants in the southern US.

What's all this "we" stuff, Msr. Toronto?

I was out in SF today. It was great. Whether or not the boycott had much effect_ and though not all in the streets can vote- its quite clear that this community can organize like hell. Thats power

+ ****ing 1

We like we Americans, like me, I'm an American too.:)

Halliburton just won a no-bid $500million contract to build prisons in arizona.

that's how.

I'll bite just to be devils advocate...........
then let "illegal immigrant" dehumanize them, they had to probably crawl through dirt, and sneak through the nite to get hear anyway, I think it's f'in rediculous, I have a bunch of friends, and friends parents at home, who came here legally on work visas and student visas, became contributing parts of society and EARNED their right to become US citizens, let all these people do the same, And the funny thing is, all these friends and families who are venezualan, mexican, phillipino, saudi arabian, to name a few, are the ones who voiced this opinion, and many of them have more respect and nationalism in their pinky then many "Americans"

It pisses me off. They are illegal. My pops was an immigrant and he did so LEGALLY and he learned the LANGUAGE. If my neighbor snuck into my house and I caught him/her in the kitchen eating an old sandwich that nobody wanted, I'd still kick him out no matter how much protesting there was. If he rang the doorbell and asked for it, I'd give it to him. There is a right way and a wrong way. If you do it the wrong way and there are repercussions, don't ***** about it. What did you expect? INS should have gone to the rallies. You want to be here and be my neighbor? Well you better damn well follow the same rules the rest of us do.

If you are an illegal, you shouldn't get the right to protest or any other constitutional right.

You get legal, speak english, live by our laws or get the hell out! Stop mooching off everyone who is legit.

This crap pisses me off

Um, that's some enlightened thinking right there dude...

These people you label do contribute to American society. They work at the jobs provided knowingly by millions of American citizens at wages that contravene American Law. They pay consumption taxes just like anyone else who buys anything in our country. They contribute part of their culture in exchange for part of yours. I don't know about other places, but Texas would suck w/out Tex-mex. Who do you think cooks it? A common rule of thumb in H-town is that if your server speaks english too fluently you may not get the meal you came for.

They contribute more than many who were born here and no amount of nationalism, racism or fear can change that reality.

My grandfather had to crawl through dirt and sneak through the night to kill Germans and Japanese so you could make a fool of yourself freely and openly w/out fear of anything more than footnmouth. When he finished his military duties he worked beside anyone else on the contruction and treated them as people ought to because he knew what he had done and why.

gee...I guess we should just open the borders and let anybody who wants to, just come over and mill around. that's a good idea.

thats probably how your family got here.

Nope, they came from Germany and Austria legally. Learned the language and actually did quite well. Pops wouldn't have retired as an engineer with Secret Security Clearance if he just jumped a fence.