Open borders with Mexico would be the shizit, I would be able to go into TJ whenever I feel like it.
Oh wait I can do that now. MY bad!

Siriusly, I was born in Mexico and was brought to this country by my parents when I was three years old. My parents had to pull some legal strings to come here. The fact is it is virtually impossible for people abroad to get a visa or come here legally with a pasport. The majority of people who come here illegally come because they are poor. I hope everyone sees us as human beings who come to this country to improve are living standards. I can't help it if my parents brought me here to give me a better future.

I like bikes too. I especialy like the ones with two wheels and a fixed gear.

you missed the entire point.
he defined a term 'disenfranchise' and i'm saying by his own definition they are not 'disenfranchised'

i agree with you. breaking the law does not mean you have forfeited your basic human rights.
however, citezenship is not a basic human right.

no but washing dishes without citizenship shouldn't be a felony

Washing dishes without citizenship is not the crime. Staying and working in the country without an appropriate visa is.
Are you saying that it shouldn't be a crime or it just shouldn't be a felony>

I hate how we justify it by saying that they take jobs Americans won't. There is a ~5% unemployment rate. Without taking into account people who are transient or moving between jobs(don't wanna get too technical) thats around 12 million unemployed persons. Minus those twelve million "undocumented" workers there plenty of jobs. Of course there are gaps where we need more people to feed a growing economy and for seasonal jobs. We need to develop a progressive work program. But there is no way we should have an open boarder and just allow anyone who wants to to pour across it.

Don't the feds (economists) consider 5% an ideal unemployment rate?

Earlier in this thread people were going back in forth about the term "illegal immigrants". I don't find that term offensive. The immigrants are technically illegal in the eyes of the government. I personally believe they have the right to be here, but in the eyes of the government they are illegal. I don't think it should be a big deal.

I don't understand when people complain about immigration. America puts the biggest double standard on immigration. Our economy thrives off the exploitation of cheap labor from illegal immigrants and then people complain about immigrants taking jobs? I have nothing but sympathy for immigrants.

How do you think they ought to be able to spot the people who aren't here legally? Millions of American citizens - and documented immigrants who have not yet attained citizenship - have been marching, too...

Sorry, you didn't mention that your point was simply semantics. Disenfranchised is an apt description in any case. Undocumented workers do not have the same protections under law that other workers have, are often coerced illegally by employers and others, often with threats of deportation should any of them try to correct wrongs done to them, yet they make the same contribution any other worker in the US does. Most earn below the poverty line and would not be required to pay taxes even if they were documented. (Not directed at you grasscircle, just knocking down the 1st rebuttal, a common one "They don't pay taxes")

Saying the are disenfranchised is disingenuous, all of the above problems are a direct result of their violating visa laws. They are able to be exploited by employers because they are breaking the law and employers are able to blackmail them into accepting poor working conditions with this knowledge. Yes this sucks but short of completely abandoning all visa regulation I see no way to avoid it. There will always be illegal immigrants and they will always be ripe for exploitation.

Also disenfranchisement has a more specific meaning in that they can't vote. If thats what you meant then yes they are but so are all non-citizens. This in the case of most(all?) liberal democracies anyway and isn;t going to change soon no matter how many marches there are.

It's not at all insincere. I don't like to split hairs, it takes away from the discussion. Here; [Adj.]disenfranchised[/Adj.] but in the future lets say marginalized for the sake of getting past it.

There are solutions to that problem in place for some systems and in the works for others. The best examples are local police departments that allow officers to ignore immigration status at all points, at all times. They don't even ask, it isn't their business. This could easily be extended to OSHA and other agencies with no conflicts. There is good reason to do so as you've pointed out.

And the law doesn't work that way, allowing/ignoring/failing to recognize violations because another violation has occured or was commited by the victim. A day to day example; when someone opens a door and sends you sailing into the air to meet the ground again it makes no difference that you were splitting lanes, or otherwise riding in an illegal fashion. None whatsoever.

i did not attend for to march in da protest. i had a napkin on the back of my bag that read "yo no trabajo hoy!". i took some nice pix. saw rev. al charpton, roger tuson*, and reggie jackson ....

more ppl then i expected. march on ...