View Poll Results: Where do you stand?
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 222. You may not vote on this poll
Where do you stand
09-19-07 | 06:01 PM
#76
Guest
Posts: n/a
This is all true. But what bothers me sometimes is that this apparent right to perpetually identify yourself with a profession is limited to specific ones, usually for superficial reasons. It existed amongst pilots and stewardesses when air travel was hip. It exists amongst diplomats and high-level politicians. It exists for fetishized jobs like doctors and lawyers. It's just...ugh. And some cachet also bizarrely exists amongst middle class 20's who've had a job that pays much less than they're "supposed" to make in the social scheme. This account sfor a small portion of messengers, but probably the most boastful section.
If people take away a sense of who they are from a job, great. But most often, they're in love with the title ("president") or the perpetual cred and stereotypes associated with it ("I used to be a messenger--I don't just 'ride' my bike"), which does the opposite of engendering a real identity.
I just find that lots of people who've had some sort of blue-collar job but are in fact middle class tend to forever think of themselves as "different" and or hardened because of said job. I used to sail and spent months on the water at a time. Yea, it changed me, but I don't pat myself on the back for it or like to make it known; if I do it just sets up a dumb facade for people to think of me as some adventurous, sea-loving dude described in Moby Dick's opening lines.
I just hate the instant-identification associated with pretty much every job and its "style", whether you're a dude in a suit assumed to be a prude or a messenger-clad ex-messenger assumed to possess radical thoughts. Sorry for the pissy social analysis.
If people take away a sense of who they are from a job, great. But most often, they're in love with the title ("president") or the perpetual cred and stereotypes associated with it ("I used to be a messenger--I don't just 'ride' my bike"), which does the opposite of engendering a real identity.
I just find that lots of people who've had some sort of blue-collar job but are in fact middle class tend to forever think of themselves as "different" and or hardened because of said job. I used to sail and spent months on the water at a time. Yea, it changed me, but I don't pat myself on the back for it or like to make it known; if I do it just sets up a dumb facade for people to think of me as some adventurous, sea-loving dude described in Moby Dick's opening lines.
I just hate the instant-identification associated with pretty much every job and its "style", whether you're a dude in a suit assumed to be a prude or a messenger-clad ex-messenger assumed to possess radical thoughts. Sorry for the pissy social analysis.
your fixation on "making less than you're supposed to in the social scheme" says all I need to know... think whatever you'd like beyond that.
the difference I see isn't so much "being hardened" and having some sort of special life perspective as having a certain perspective on bicycling (as practically anyone who rides a bike day-in-and-day-out would have). I'd imagine you have a pretty different perspective on sailing than I do (what with my one summer at a community boating program). Being a bike messenger was a ridiculously sweet job back before e-signatures.
on the otherhand, lots of things lend perspective... but then, what would I know, I grew up in a leafy suburb.
Last edited by tinydr; 09-19-07 at 06:13 PM.
09-19-07 | 06:20 PM
#77
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
09-19-07 | 06:32 PM
#81
Guest
Posts: n/a
uninformed individual that I am, I looked-up troll... he would've needed to have started the thread with the intent of provocation to be a troll (or continued posting with intent to provoke further reactions)... intent is a tricky thing.
anyway... I don't mean to start a big discussion on the topic.
anyway... I don't mean to start a big discussion on the topic.
09-19-07 | 06:40 PM
#82
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
uninformed individual that I am, I looked-up troll... he would've needed to have started the thread with the intent of provocation to be a troll (or continued posting with intent to provoke further reactions)... intent is a tricky thing.
anyway... I don't mean to start a big discussion on the topic.
anyway... I don't mean to start a big discussion on the topic.
09-19-07 | 06:43 PM
#83
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 999
Likes: 1
From: the land of ice and snow
your fixation on "making less than you're supposed to in the social scheme" says all I need to know... think whatever you'd like beyond that.
the difference I see isn't so much "being hardened" and having some sort of special life perspective as having a certain perspective on bicycling (as practically anyone who rides a bike day-in-and-day-out would have). I'd imagine you have a pretty different perspective on sailing than I do (what with my one summer at a community boating program). Being a bike messenger was a ridiculously sweet job back before e-signatures.
Last edited by bexley; 09-19-07 at 08:01 PM.
09-19-07 | 07:43 PM
#84
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 999
Likes: 1
From: the land of ice and snow
I didn't think I needed to mention it, but I want to say I've got nothing against messengers and think it would be a challenging and somewhat fun job. Bike messengers do seem like more interesting people than, say, accountants, but I don't take any face value from that.
But I'm just playing devil's advocate here and railing on things that are not dominant in messenger culture but are in some professions--say, showing off or excess pride in the identity of a job. It's just bad to see a culture with some good to it suffer from the faults of the jobs to which it's usually contrasted against. Then again, show-offs are found everywhere, and maybe every identifiable group of people needs a healthy portion of them.
/shuts up now
But I'm just playing devil's advocate here and railing on things that are not dominant in messenger culture but are in some professions--say, showing off or excess pride in the identity of a job. It's just bad to see a culture with some good to it suffer from the faults of the jobs to which it's usually contrasted against. Then again, show-offs are found everywhere, and maybe every identifiable group of people needs a healthy portion of them.
/shuts up now
Last edited by bexley; 09-19-07 at 07:53 PM.
09-19-07 | 08:18 PM
#85
Guest
Posts: n/a
messengering probably attracts more than its share of show-offs... although there may well be a show-off accountant out there somewhere.
I think maybe that it was once upon a time a badass cool job both drew people who are into that sort of thing and into having done it... outside of a bicycling forum I rarely bother bringing it up anymore; it's embarassing to admit how long its been and to think I still self-identify as such...
I don't think it was obsessive to focus on that particular comment from your previous post, I thought it showed a point of view that was pointless to argue with... I don't believe I suggested that people might not gain special and unique perspectives from any number of experiences; as far as I was concerned I was arguing the opposite. Seeing it's someone else's experience I don't think I have any vantage point to comment on its value. I try my best to extend that to how a person should or should not feel about having worked any job; admittedly not always succeeding. Not to be overly facetious but I would have a hard time understanding "marketresearch-pride." I was going to say "accountant-pride" but what would I know?
I think maybe that it was once upon a time a badass cool job both drew people who are into that sort of thing and into having done it... outside of a bicycling forum I rarely bother bringing it up anymore; it's embarassing to admit how long its been and to think I still self-identify as such...
I don't think it was obsessive to focus on that particular comment from your previous post, I thought it showed a point of view that was pointless to argue with... I don't believe I suggested that people might not gain special and unique perspectives from any number of experiences; as far as I was concerned I was arguing the opposite. Seeing it's someone else's experience I don't think I have any vantage point to comment on its value. I try my best to extend that to how a person should or should not feel about having worked any job; admittedly not always succeeding. Not to be overly facetious but I would have a hard time understanding "marketresearch-pride." I was going to say "accountant-pride" but what would I know?
09-19-07 | 08:20 PM
#86
Guest
Posts: n/a
I think the fact that he "did it for his amusement" and then called us all "idiots" is evidence enough of ******y intent. I don't have to read the thread, but as someone who's elected to be part of this little community, I'm as entitled as he is to express my opinion. My opinion is that this poll is pretty stupid, and excludes a great number of riders...but I doubt that he really intended it as a genuine poll, but as something to stir up trouble or aggrandize himself. Whatever.
I presume it was just a poorly thought out poll for his amusement.
09-19-07 | 10:47 PM
#87
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 999
Likes: 1
From: the land of ice and snow
You misunderstood. I was sarcastically saying "how obsessive!" in reference to myself, since you said I had a fixation.
It doesn't sound like I'm really in disagreement with you. It sounds a bit like you took offence to my earlier post for a reason I'm not sure of, which is partly why I aired the fact that I have nothing against messengers.
It doesn't sound like I'm really in disagreement with you. It sounds a bit like you took offence to my earlier post for a reason I'm not sure of, which is partly why I aired the fact that I have nothing against messengers.
09-20-07 | 02:10 AM
#88
Thread Starter
Paste Taster
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,392
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento, CA
Bikes: , Jury Bike, Moto Outcast 29, Spicer standard track frame and spicer custom steel sprint frame.
the true intent of the thread was to strike up this conversation about social standing and why we as a forum community gravitate towards bikes
you know the geek someone who is totally turned on by bikes a mechanic a frame builder a bike shop employee and yes somewhere in there is the pissy teenager from middle America who thinks he/she knows all
cool/ hip biker I ride for fashion I ride because it my get me something in return
the cyclist is a commuter and a racer a bit of a jock he rides all the time but a little less when the weather isn't nice
the messenger is the professional because they tend to know things about a city and how to move and work it to their advantage far beyond the grasp of most other people I didn't know the city until I had to work in it 9-5 m-f
ya know this isn't some esoteric separation of people it is more to see how dedicated you are we are the same but different i still wear spandex most days like the rest of you
thanks to everyone that has posted thanks to everyone who actually discussed things it is nice to actually see discussion of points without it coming to stupidity
keep the rubber on the road and your head on your neck
you know the geek someone who is totally turned on by bikes a mechanic a frame builder a bike shop employee and yes somewhere in there is the pissy teenager from middle America who thinks he/she knows all
cool/ hip biker I ride for fashion I ride because it my get me something in return
the cyclist is a commuter and a racer a bit of a jock he rides all the time but a little less when the weather isn't nice
the messenger is the professional because they tend to know things about a city and how to move and work it to their advantage far beyond the grasp of most other people I didn't know the city until I had to work in it 9-5 m-f
ya know this isn't some esoteric separation of people it is more to see how dedicated you are we are the same but different i still wear spandex most days like the rest of you
thanks to everyone that has posted thanks to everyone who actually discussed things it is nice to actually see discussion of points without it coming to stupidity
keep the rubber on the road and your head on your neck
09-20-07 | 02:12 AM
#89
Thread Starter
Paste Taster
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,392
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento, CA
Bikes: , Jury Bike, Moto Outcast 29, Spicer standard track frame and spicer custom steel sprint frame.
09-20-07 | 10:10 AM
#94
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,990
Likes: 36
From: Williston, VT
Bikes: Bridgestone RB-T, Soma Rush, Razesa Racer, ⅔ of a 1983 Holdsworth Professional, Nishiki Riviera Winter Bike
In my opinion you should have left employment and age out ot your "bike geek' description. I tend to think bike forums is crawling with bike geeks, and probably the majority of us are adults who are employed, but not in the bicycle industry.
09-20-07 | 03:46 PM
#95
Headed to the Library...
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 607
Likes: 0
From: DC
Bikes: 2003 cherry red Bianchi Giro, Quattro Assi Team 2000 Rocket
You know, I was cool with this thread up until that right there. . . . Yes, I understand that you're not saying 100%, you were nice enought to give 10% of a chance. but still. come on dude.
09-20-07 | 03:52 PM
#96
It's full of stars...
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 298
Likes: 0
From: Oregon
Bikes: Trek OCLV mt Bike, Diamond Back Sorrento (stolen), Cannondale 4000, KHS fixie, Giant Butte commuter work horse
09-20-07 | 04:05 PM
#97
Utilitarian Boy
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,235
Likes: 5
From: Bronx, NY
Bikes: Check the sig to find out
I voted myself as a cyclist. I don't feel you need to be decked out in spandex to be one. I ride my bike to get here and there, like riding my bike here and there, and have fun riding my bike here and there. As long as you consider your bike your car you are a cyclist (but that's just how I feel) in whatever whether there is.
09-20-07 | 04:05 PM
#98
some new kind of kick
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 1
From: Smog Valley
Bikes: SOMA Rush, Miyata 912, Kogswell Mod. G, want a porteur bike
