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Vanilla Bicycles

Old 09-17-08, 03:44 PM
  #26  
Jabba Degrassi
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Originally Posted by krusty View Post
Not an apt comparison. Some people buy a Ferrari just to be seen in one, true. However, everyone in the world knows how much he must have spent on it, and what a Ferrari is. I would venture to say that even among bicycle enthusiasts, few know Vanilla bikes, or what they cost, and among the general public? - most wouldn't even notice one.
Yeah, and most people wouldn't know the difference between a Grand Mighty and a Bulletproof crank, wouldn't know the difference between Nitto cold-forged track drops and a random pair of rusted bars pulled off a 20-year-old road bike, etc., but that doesn't stop people from buying them for the "bling" factor.

Not everyone knows it's bling, but for people in the know it's supposed to be impressive or something. The only difference is the number of people you're trying to impress.
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Old 09-17-08, 03:51 PM
  #27  
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vanilla must meet the demand of his product and reach that fine margin line--- he will become legend if he fails-- he will be a builder of a nation if he succeeds--- He must push forward and teach future generations--- He must not become bill gates, but he should become make a name for himself-- somewhere between Kleenex and Cannondale............ selah.... good luck and goodafternoon
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Old 09-17-08, 04:12 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Jabba Degrassi View Post
Not everyone knows it's bling, but for people in the know it's supposed to be impressive or something. The only difference is the number of people you're trying to impress.
True. I still think they're nicer than a pile of carbon fiber that's been popped out of a mold for $5k. Road bikes have taken the prices to absurd extremes.
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Old 09-17-08, 04:18 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by krusty View Post
True. I still think they're nicer than a pile of carbon fiber that's been popped out of a mold for $5k. Road bikes have taken the prices to absurd extremes.
That's true, but in that instance, a Vanilla is more akin to a $1,500,000 super-rare 100-year-old fully stock restoration project than a Ferrari, which would be more akin to the carbon jobs. Most people will know it's pretty expensive, but people who share his enthusiasm for vintage cars will know he's the Alpha dawg.
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Old 09-17-08, 04:30 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by krusty View Post
Not an apt comparison. Some people buy a Ferrari just to be seen in one, true. However, everyone in the world knows how much he must have spent on it, and what a Ferrari is. I would venture to say that even among bicycle enthusiasts, few know Vanilla bikes, or what they cost, and among the general public? - most wouldn't even notice one.
In life, dear boy, most have something to prove. Buying a Vanilla, Ferrari, or a 50,000 square foot house are all along the same lines. Generally some sort of complex is involved. That's all I'm saying.

I personally don't care for Vanilla. They are nice looking bikes. Thats all I know about them.
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Old 09-17-08, 05:13 PM
  #31  
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"$1,500,000 super-rare 100-year-old fully stock restoration project"

What? Vanilla is just a lugged steel frame. Sure it is built by gnomes in Portland, but they are by no means 100 year old historical relics. A decent framebuilder could knock one off from the same off-the-shelf parts for a fraction of the cost.
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Old 09-17-08, 05:16 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by JackD View Post
"$1,500,000 super-rare 100-year-old fully stock restoration project"

What? Vanilla is just a lugged steel frame. Sure it is built by gnomes in Portland, but they are by no means 100 year old historical relics. A decent framebuilder could knock one off from the same off-the-shelf parts for a fraction of the cost.
All I meant was that it's pricey as hell for the bike world, and although most people would recognize it looks fairly nice, few people would recognize it's true exclusivity.
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Old 09-17-08, 05:22 PM
  #33  
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The difference is the day and age aspect.

Bikes of yesteryear were held in high regard because of the builder, like a Pogliagi, a Colnago, or a Guerciotti for instance. The frames got their magic from the name, not necessarily the quality. People bought into the "Voodoo" bit of the name. I saw some famous framebuilders shops in Italy in the 80's and I dare say that most modern USA citizens would freak out on the mess and haphazard building. But they worked perfectly, and had that lineage.

Vanilla is going off of the attention to detail, craftsmanship, and paint, Sacha White is secondary to his own creation in a way. Where the old style handbuilts rested on the builder himself, and not the execution.

Now we have faceless factories pumping stuff out, and we as consumers and people demand a human at the helm, no one likes talking to a machine, we want the operator, a real live person.

Vanilla is a benchmark of sorts, people can feel safe that the name "Vanilla" has presence, and will retain some sort of value. Getting that reputation is not easy. As long as Vanilla bikes are built (what we cannot see) to an incredibly high standard, then let him get his due.

Bikes are cool.
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Old 09-17-08, 05:33 PM
  #34  
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I guess I don't get the incredibly high standard part. Sure, they are well built and painted. They also have a lot of style. Sasha still uses the same old torches and files as have been used in countless framebuilder shops over many decades. Same as any lugged frame builder.

Not saying I'd turn one down, but to be honest, I wouldn't wait five years for one. Talk about voodoo...
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Old 09-17-08, 05:45 PM
  #35  
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When pricing a frame, one needs to look not only at the price of the raw materials, but also at the desired wage per hour of the builder. Is $20/hr a reasonable wage? Is $40? Neither of those wages would make me quit my day job to build frames exclusively for a living, even if I had a 5yr wait list for my product. If I desire a higher wage, however, my product had better stand out from the masses of similar products. If so, and people recognize that, what's to stop me from charging more and more, until the wait list starts to shorten?

I like the style of the Vanillas, but no, I wouldn't wait 5yrs for one, and yes, there are similar products out there for less, but who am I to begrudge a builder who can develop the marketing and make a decent living from his product?
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Old 09-17-08, 05:47 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by JackD View Post
I guess I don't get the incredibly high standard part. Sure, they are well built and painted. They also have a lot of style. Sasha still uses the same old torches and files as have been used in countless framebuilder shops over many decades. Same as any lugged frame builder.

Not saying I'd turn one down, but to be honest, I wouldn't wait five years for one. Talk about voodoo...

I agree, It does not appeal to me either. I dabble in making lugged steel frames myself, so I am not bowled over by the building (the paint is incredible) but I do appreciate the effort though.

Oh, and for the simple reason that the bikes are not labeled "White" (his name) he already has distanced himself from the creation, no self respecting Italian framebuilder would use anything but his own name....that is all he has! Times have changed.

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Old 09-17-08, 06:12 PM
  #37  
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I own a montello and a vuelta ( among other stuff) and I get off on the detail and the "voodoo"
of these bikes...... I got them used and I will not sell them..... If I had a chance to buy a van.
at say ( frame and fork) for 6-800.00 ok... but the old stuff esp colnago is like artwork---
I cant stand to ride junk anymore-- life is too short, not worth it--- unless I build the frame myself,
well, I will pay top dollar for hand crafted bikes with exotic tubes and etched lugs--- it just seems
proper.------
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Old 09-17-08, 08:44 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Erzulis Boat View Post
The difference is the day and age aspect.

Bikes of yesteryear were held in high regard because of the builder, like a Pogliagi, a Colnago, or a Guerciotti for instance. The frames got their magic from the name, not necessarily the quality. People bought into the "Voodoo" bit of the name. I saw some famous framebuilders shops in Italy in the 80's and I dare say that most modern USA citizens would freak out on the mess and haphazard building. But they worked perfectly, and had that lineage.

Vanilla is going off of the attention to detail, craftsmanship, and paint, Sacha White is secondary to his own creation in a way. Where the old style handbuilts rested on the builder himself, and not the execution.

Now we have faceless factories pumping stuff out, and we as consumers and people demand a human at the helm, no one likes talking to a machine, we want the operator, a real live person.

Vanilla is a benchmark of sorts, people can feel safe that the name "Vanilla" has presence, and will retain some sort of value. Getting that reputation is not easy. As long as Vanilla bikes are built (what we cannot see) to an incredibly high standard, then let him get his due.
There seems to be a lot of confusion between builders and brands here. The idea of people buying a vanilla because it will retain value is just stupid. A new bike isn't an investment and a new custom should be even less of one.
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Old 09-17-08, 08:58 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by dutret View Post
There seems to be a lot of confusion between builders and brands here. The idea of people buying a vanilla because it will retain value is just stupid. A new bike isn't an investment and a new custom should be even less of one.
Spot on. The mere fact that it's custom made for the original buyer means that it's relatively worthless to anyone without the exact same critical measurements.
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Old 09-17-08, 09:03 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by dutret View Post
When exactly does a car become a work of art for you? Who is the artist? You mention them being handmade. Are the workers that put them together artists? Where is their creativity? Is the design team? Why are they artists but not the design team behind an escort?
Well, just about everyone in the assembly of that car is a artisan. Yes the people who assemble that car are artists. Its a craft thats not practiced much anymore. People who do things like that are proud of what they do, they do it because they love it. I hope vanillas success would bring more frame builders out of hiding, or we will all be riding some crap asian frame built in sweatshops.
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Old 09-17-08, 09:04 PM
  #41  
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It's too early to tell if Sacha's craftsmanship will appreciate over time, but it will be interesting to see where he is five years from now. I'm guessing the shop will evolve into a blend of Vanilla and Speedvagen with Sacha adding new artisans through an apprenticeship program to keep up with demand and lower production costs while increasing profit margin. He's a smart guy and I think he has a defined long-range plan.
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Old 09-17-08, 09:06 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Fixter View Post
Yes the people who assemble that car are artists. Its a craft thats not practiced much anymore.
lol...where do you kids come from?
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Old 09-17-08, 09:07 PM
  #43  
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Vanilla bicycles obviously fills a niche that doesn't appeal to everyone, but regardless, there aren't a whole lot of bikes that i would pick over a vanilla.
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Old 09-17-08, 09:10 PM
  #44  
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what would you reject in favor of a vanilla?
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Old 09-17-08, 09:12 PM
  #45  
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the SE draft.
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Old 09-17-08, 09:13 PM
  #46  
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It cracks me up how everyone on here talks about Sacha as if they are best buds. Most of you haven't even seen a Vanilla in person.
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Old 09-17-08, 09:15 PM
  #47  
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I know and he isnt even a mash rider.
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Old 09-17-08, 09:19 PM
  #48  
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Choose your bike for your own reasons. Ride it hard and put it away wet or baby it or park it forever in your trophy room. Enjoy ride, the lugs, the paint, or whatever it is that attracted you. Not all of an object's value can be measured by a scale or a stopwatch.

Carbon Trek? Merlin? Redline? Doesn't matter. If it thrills you to ride it, great. If you can spend hours admiring the welds, super. If it's just a tool to use and wear out, fine.
As Saint Augustine said, Love and do what you will.
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Old 09-17-08, 09:31 PM
  #49  
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I don't ever plan on owning one, but I'm not crazy enough to fail to see they are special.

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Old 09-17-08, 09:58 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by MadeInItaly View Post
I don't ever plan on owning one, but I'm not crazy enough to fail to see they are special.

you're easily distracted, eh?

OOOOH SHINY!
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