This describes most of human behavior.

Those look really cool, but I question their safety.

yea, i would be a little wary too.

The coolest and best bikes are the ones that no one else likes because they don't know about them, making Vanillas especially not-BF approved...

...what's the reasoning behind this statement here?

I think it means that you can get the same quality and functionality for less from a number of different builders. The suggestion being that hype is responsible for the difference in price. Hype has a very low value and a high cost. This is what means overpriced.

If i was to pick a shop for a fixed build, it would probably be Yamaguchi or Courage...

It's important to note that what you're paying for on a Vanilla are all those cute little details. It's definitely an "artisan" bike for people who can afford all those bells and whistles. If that's what you think is cool, then Vanilla and their ilk are the bikes for you.

I think you'd be hard pressed to suggest that a Vanilla rides any better than any number of less glitzy frame builders with far more frame building experience ie. Waterford, Mercian, Cinelli, etc, etc. The list goes on...

I personally feel a little too much praise is heaped on this new breed of builders whose specialty appears to rooted in jewelery rather than cycling. Everybody "oohs" and "aahhhs" and fancy drop outs and chrome and fancy paint jobs without much consideration for anything else. But, to each his own. I'm sure they ride nice and I'm sure his customers are happy. Just my .02.

I beat the crap out of my bike and couldn't imagine investing in something that pretty. I'd **** it up real quick and feel bad.

Even without those the base price for a vanilla was really high when it was still published and look at the speedvagen now.

I can't tell if this is serious or not. Assuming it is:

ferrari factory tour

I fail to see how a worker on the assembly line for ferrari is really any different from a robot on the corvette line. The production techniques aren't that different and there isn't any more room for creative expression that is the center of art. Similarly I don't think a standard sized speedvagen is inherently different than a taiwanese frame. It's nicer than any I can think of but it's still just a bunch of metal welded together in a predetermined fashion.

What are we talking about again?

Impossible to go wrong with a Yamaguchi. My road bike should be ready by December.

i really don't like the look of these bikes.

I guess I'm just not really impressed by shiny paint jobs and pretty lugs.
If I'm gonna lay down big money on a full custom its just NOT gonna be to some American kid that has barely even been alive longer than Ive been riding bicycles.
As said before, Yamaguchi x1000. There are others though.
In the real world, experience and knowledge trumps youth and fancy drop outs any day.

I wonder who is building bikes at these companies now? Do you know?

I think the same can be said about the biggest naysayers here. They are trash talking based on a couple of surface details rather than educating themselves and considering what else goes into the process that adds value.

sasha, who does build for those companies?

If I had the money I'd drop it on this local store. https://www.jitensha.com/eng/e_index.html

Such as? What does $3500 really buy from you that can't be had cheaper from Waterford or other established builders?

Is anyone really trash talking your bikes? People are just suggesting that as nice as they are they aren't worth the huge premium or the wait over a similar bikes.

What was the average price of a vanilla branded frame this year? How long ago was the deposit placed?
What really makes a speedvagen that much better than the alternatives? It's a nice bike but other than the seatmast and custom tubes that requires do you really think it's that much better than anything else?

A redesign of the standard braking system making it stiffer and lighter. Custom drawn tubing specific for the project and extremely light/ strong steel drops sandwiched with raw metal faces to keep wear and tare from wheel changes to a minimum. a fit session with the designer/ builder of the bike, actual racing experience which comes in particularly handy when designing and refining race bike.

That's one aspect of the benefit.

Additionally, you get to work with a company that pays a living wage to it's employees, health insurance, profit sharing etc. Pays their paint shop a price that can afford it's employees the same standard of living.

In short, there are a lot of less expensive companies out there. That's fine. For me, when considering what I want my bikes to be and how to build my company, how cheaply I can do something is near the bottom of my list of priorities.

I guess I'll phrase it differently.

What knowledge/ experience are you (or anyone here) basing your opinions on. Not just with my company, but with any builder?

Deathhare? What actual knowledge do you have on the subject?

I have over 30,000 hours of frame design/ building experience. My bikes have been to multiple world championships (winning one), won gold silver and brinze at National championships, countless state championships. But you're right, a bike from this "American Kid" probably couldn't handle what you would throw at it.

Sorry dude, but Mike DeSalvo is hardly some "random builder".

good job avoiding direct questions in favor or straw men.

last I checked there is no guarantee who is building your bike with a speed vagen it just happens to have been him in the past. Either way how much more is a speedvagen than a normal desalvo? Do you really think a normal builder using the same geometry without the seatmast is that much different?

Word.


I was seriously considering a Speedvagen road bike, but in the end couldn't afford it (KC nationals, and racing in Belgium aren't cheap!), so I went with a Yamaguchi. I'm very happy with my decision, and can't wait for my bike to be ready. I still think the SV is an amazing bike, and a good value.

(edit) Yes, I have seen one in person. The owner raced a Steelman, eurocross, and said it measures up in every way. As someone who races a Steelman I can attest to the hype surrounding them being legitimate . If the SV is as good as a Steelman... it's fu(king amazing.

How?