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Vanilla Bicycles

Old 09-17-08, 10:07 PM
  #51  
uke
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Originally Posted by jabba degrassi View Post
the only difference is the number of people you're trying to impress.
This describes most of human behavior.
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Old 09-17-08, 10:07 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by MadeInItaly View Post
I don't ever plan on owning one, but I'm not crazy enough to fail to see they are special.

Those look really cool, but I question their safety.
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Old 09-17-08, 10:17 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by kergin View Post
Those look really cool, but I question their safety.
yea, i would be a little wary too.
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Old 09-17-08, 10:21 PM
  #54  
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The coolest and best bikes are the ones that no one else likes because they don't know about them, making Vanillas especially not-BF approved...
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Old 09-17-08, 10:42 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by dutret View Post
Vanillas are overpriced because there are plenty of people doing very similiar work for substantially less.
...what's the reasoning behind this statement here?
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Old 09-17-08, 10:57 PM
  #56  
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I think it means that you can get the same quality and functionality for less from a number of different builders. The suggestion being that hype is responsible for the difference in price. Hype has a very low value and a high cost. This is what means overpriced.
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Old 09-18-08, 12:02 AM
  #57  
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If i was to pick a shop for a fixed build, it would probably be Yamaguchi or Courage...
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Old 09-18-08, 12:35 AM
  #58  
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It's important to note that what you're paying for on a Vanilla are all those cute little details. It's definitely an "artisan" bike for people who can afford all those bells and whistles. If that's what you think is cool, then Vanilla and their ilk are the bikes for you.

I think you'd be hard pressed to suggest that a Vanilla rides any better than any number of less glitzy frame builders with far more frame building experience ie. Waterford, Mercian, Cinelli, etc, etc. The list goes on...

I personally feel a little too much praise is heaped on this new breed of builders whose specialty appears to rooted in jewelery rather than cycling. Everybody "oohs" and "aahhhs" and fancy drop outs and chrome and fancy paint jobs without much consideration for anything else. But, to each his own. I'm sure they ride nice and I'm sure his customers are happy. Just my .02.
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Old 09-18-08, 12:42 AM
  #59  
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I beat the crap out of my bike and couldn't imagine investing in something that pretty. I'd **** it up real quick and feel bad.
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Old 09-18-08, 06:53 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by TNCLR View Post
It's important to note that what you're paying for on a Vanilla are all those cute little details. It's definitely an "artisan" bike for people who can afford all those bells and whistles. If that's what you think is cool, then Vanilla and their ilk are the bikes for you.
Even without those the base price for a vanilla was really high when it was still published and look at the speedvagen now.

Well, just about everyone in the assembly of that car is a artisan. Yes the people who assemble that car are artists. Its a craft thats not practiced much anymore. People who do things like that are proud of what they do, they do it because they love it. I hope vanillas success would bring more frame builders out of hiding, or we will all be riding some crap asian frame built in sweatshops.
I can't tell if this is serious or not. Assuming it is:

ferrari factory tour

I fail to see how a worker on the assembly line for ferrari is really any different from a robot on the corvette line. The production techniques aren't that different and there isn't any more room for creative expression that is the center of art. Similarly I don't think a standard sized speedvagen is inherently different than a taiwanese frame. It's nicer than any I can think of but it's still just a bunch of metal welded together in a predetermined fashion.
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Old 09-18-08, 07:32 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by baxtefer View Post
you're easily distracted, eh?

OOOOH SHINY!

What are we talking about again?
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Old 09-18-08, 07:37 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by thinkLove View Post
If i was to pick a shop for a fixed build, it would probably be Yamaguchi or Courage...
Impossible to go wrong with a Yamaguchi. My road bike should be ready by December.
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Old 09-18-08, 08:02 AM
  #63  
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i really don't like the look of these bikes.
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Old 09-18-08, 08:08 AM
  #64  
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I guess I'm just not really impressed by shiny paint jobs and pretty lugs.
If I'm gonna lay down big money on a full custom its just NOT gonna be to some American kid that has barely even been alive longer than Ive been riding bicycles.
As said before, Yamaguchi x1000. There are others though.
In the real world, experience and knowledge trumps youth and fancy drop outs any day.
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Old 09-18-08, 08:46 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by TNCLR View Post
It's important to note that what you're paying for on a Vanilla are all those cute little details. It's definitely an "artisan" bike for people who can afford all those bells and whistles. If that's what you think is cool, then Vanilla and their ilk are the bikes for you.

I think you'd be hard pressed to suggest that a Vanilla rides any better than any number of less glitzy
frame builders with far more frame building experience ie. Waterford, Mercian, Cinelli, etc, etc. The list goes on...
I wonder who is building bikes at these companies now? Do you know?

Originally Posted by TNCLR View Post
I personally feel a little too much praise is heaped on this new breed of builders whose specialty appears to rooted in jewelery rather than cycling. Everybody "oohs" and "aahhhs" and fancy drop outs and chrome and fancy paint jobs without much consideration for anything else. But, to each his own. I'm sure they ride nice and I'm sure his customers are happy. Just my .02.
I think the same can be said about the biggest naysayers here. They are trash talking based on a couple of surface details rather than educating themselves and considering what else goes into the process that adds value.
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Old 09-18-08, 08:57 AM
  #66  
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sasha, who does build for those companies?
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Old 09-18-08, 09:01 AM
  #67  
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If I had the money I'd drop it on this local store. http://www.jitensha.com/eng/e_index.html
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Old 09-18-08, 09:03 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by sacha white View Post
I think the same can be said about the biggest naysayers here. They are trash talking based on a couple of surface details rather than educating themselves and considering what else goes into the process that adds value.
Such as? What does $3500 really buy from you that can't be had cheaper from Waterford or other established builders?
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Old 09-18-08, 09:20 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by sacha white View Post
I think the same can be said about the biggest naysayers here. They are trash talking based on a couple of surface details rather than educating themselves and considering what else goes into the process that adds value.
Is anyone really trash talking your bikes? People are just suggesting that as nice as they are they aren't worth the huge premium or the wait over a similar bikes.

What was the average price of a vanilla branded frame this year? How long ago was the deposit placed?
What really makes a speedvagen that much better than the alternatives? It's a nice bike but other than the seatmast and custom tubes that requires do you really think it's that much better than anything else?
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Old 09-18-08, 10:14 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by kergin View Post
Such as? What does $3500 really buy from you that can't be had cheaper from Waterford or other established builders?
A redesign of the standard braking system making it stiffer and lighter. Custom drawn tubing specific for the project and extremely light/ strong steel drops sandwiched with raw metal faces to keep wear and tare from wheel changes to a minimum. a fit session with the designer/ builder of the bike, actual racing experience which comes in particularly handy when designing and refining race bike.

That's one aspect of the benefit.

Additionally, you get to work with a company that pays a living wage to it's employees, health insurance, profit sharing etc. Pays their paint shop a price that can afford it's employees the same standard of living.

In short, there are a lot of less expensive companies out there. That's fine. For me, when considering what I want my bikes to be and how to build my company, how cheaply I can do something is near the bottom of my list of priorities.
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Old 09-18-08, 10:23 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by dutret View Post
Is anyone really trash talking your bikes? People are just suggesting that as nice as they are they aren't worth the huge premium or the wait over a similar bikes.

What was the average price of a vanilla branded frame this year? How long ago was the deposit placed?
What really makes a speedvagen that much better than the alternatives? It's a nice bike but other than the seatmast and custom tubes that requires do you really think it's that much better than anything else?
I guess I'll phrase it differently.

What knowledge/ experience are you (or anyone here) basing your opinions on. Not just with my company, but with any builder?

Deathhare? What actual knowledge do you have on the subject?

I have over 30,000 hours of frame design/ building experience. My bikes have been to multiple world championships (winning one), won gold silver and brinze at National championships, countless state championships. But you're right, a bike from this "American Kid" probably couldn't handle what you would throw at it.
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Old 09-18-08, 10:33 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by dutret View Post
His show bikes are full of tacky gimmicks... Without that there isn't much setting him apart from others. He seems to make a nice bike but not so nice that it's worth waiting the better part of a decade for and paying god knows how much for. Even the speedvagen is absurdly overpriced. A $3500 steel race frame made by some random builder? Why not just go with some independent builder for a fraction of that.

A bike isn't something you should buy with the plan of handing it down to your children. That will just get the in the way of riding it. **** they might not even fit on it properly.

edit: the consumerist mentality of buying something just because it is exclusive disgusts me.
Sorry dude, but Mike DeSalvo is hardly some "random builder".
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Old 09-18-08, 11:12 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by sacha white View Post
I guess I'll phrase it differently.

What knowledge/ experience are you (or anyone here) basing your opinions on. Not just with my company, but with any builder?

Deathhare? What actual knowledge do you have on the subject?

I have over 30,000 hours of frame design/ building experience. My bikes have been to multiple world championships (winning one), won gold silver and brinze at National championships, countless state championships. But you're right, a bike from this "American Kid" probably couldn't handle what you would throw at it.
good job avoiding direct questions in favor or straw men.

Sorry dude, but Mike DeSalvo is hardly some "random builder".
last I checked there is no guarantee who is building your bike with a speed vagen it just happens to have been him in the past. Either way how much more is a speedvagen than a normal desalvo? Do you really think a normal builder using the same geometry without the seatmast is that much different?
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Old 09-18-08, 11:15 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Rikardi151 View Post
Sorry dude, but Mike DeSalvo is hardly some "random builder".
Word.


I was seriously considering a Speedvagen road bike, but in the end couldn't afford it (KC nationals, and racing in Belgium aren't cheap!), so I went with a Yamaguchi. I'm very happy with my decision, and can't wait for my bike to be ready. I still think the SV is an amazing bike, and a good value.

(edit) Yes, I have seen one in person. The owner raced a Steelman, eurocross, and said it measures up in every way. As someone who races a Steelman I can attest to the hype surrounding them being legitimate . If the SV is as good as a Steelman... it's fu(king amazing.

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Old 09-18-08, 11:20 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by sfcrossrider View Post
I still think the SV is an amazing bike, and a good value.
How?
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