I personally was in your decision making stage as well between the 2. I went with the Kilo WT because it has more versatility than a Steamroller and that price tag is hard to beat (You get a complete bike for less than just the surly frameset with no HS either)

I frekin love this bike. Geo is quick swift to have such large tires, but I haven't run anything less than 40mm on this though. (I swapped out the parts because I had them around. All the stocks are decent and will function just fine) The stock wheels are fine so I don't really think you'll have an issue with them especially if you run large tires. I have a 36h open pro wheelset with 50mm Schwalbe Big Apples on it, so the frame can take some big tires. Also factor in that large tire brake caliphers are included with the WT so you're all set.

Is the Surly a better quality frame? Maybe. I'm satisfied with my WT though and I'd feel like I'd be downgrading if I were to ever switch frames

Photofest of what it can do...

Clearances

With 40mm Schwalbe Marathon XR tires





With 50mm Schwalbe Big Apple tires




Pics of the bike

With 40mm

[IMG][/IMG]

With 50mm

[IMG][/IMG]

Carrying stuff

Random snaps because I like this bike so much

If you absolutely MUST have a second FG/SS bike, get a fat tire bike, too.

@Gyeswho - Awesome pics! That's exactly what I needed; someone with real first hand experience with the Kilo WT.

Again, I thank all of you for your detailed and varied feedback. Tomorrow, I will visit the LBS to answer some questions and see how much wiggle room we have on price. Frankly, I'd still like to work with the LBS if possible, since they are a good small old shop and everyone there is a real cyclist. I have ridden the Steamroller that belongs to one of the owners, who rides it year round to commute and run errands, but he bought it as a frame only, so it doesn't have the stock components to evaluate. Still, it's nice to know that if need be, I can still go the Kilo WT route and get a good quality and durable bike w/o breaking the bank.

So we have mihlback recommending WT despite never owning one or any BD bike, and Gyeswho you said you feel a Surly frame would be a downgrade? I'm just curious how, besides the braze-ons/eyelets. Is it really the perfect bike, no downsides at all? How is the paint on BD bikes? The paint on the Surly is pretty solid in my experience.

Its absurd to insist that one has to own a bike to have an informed opinion about it. In fact, owners can sometimes be a poor source...often rationalizing their own purchases gets in the way of making an unbiased judgement . At any rate, after viewing this forum for nearly five years, there is more than enough evidence available to back up my statements and recommendations. The WT and Steamroller are more or less equivalent bikes. The fact that the WT is hundreds less makes it a better buy, unless you really depend on your LBS for sizing and mechanics. In that case, you may be better off with the Surly. Thats really all there is to it.

I wasn't really insisting anything, but you seemed so sure of yourself I would have hoped you'd at least seen one before. And anyone who's been on the forum 5 years should be aware of the Steamroller's very solid reputation, no? Something to be said for a test ride and seeing a bike in person. Bikes are greater than the sum of their spec sheets, just imo. Maybe I'm unique in that but I don't think so. And I'm not rationalizing anything for myself, I just thought I'd present an opinion of a satisfied Surly owner against the chorus of "WT". My particular weakness is that whenever someone comes in here with their first post asking about a BD bike I just push back instinctively. But given the facts that the OP wants the fat tires and the hoods, he's got skills+tools, and he's so on the fence, a WT is probably a decent choice if money is an issue.

Couldn't the same be said for pretty much any BD bike, but yet you don't own any? Do you rely on your LBS for sizing and mechanics? Does everyone else who doesn't own a BD bike?

It's not a perfect bike, but its pretty good for my uses. I only say the Surly is a downgrade only due to have a lower tire clearance which limits you a little. Also like you said it lacks braze-ons (I know not everyone will care, but I just like the idea of having options). I am all for Steamrollers though. I actually ordered a steamroller, but when I saw the WT (price, more tire clearance) the day after ordering the Surly, I canceled the order and got the WT instead. I was biased toward the fat tire room.

Regarding toe overlap, since I've only riddern 40mm and 50mm tires on it, overlap is going to be a thing because I'm pushing it to the max. I think if I were switch out to a tire that's like 30mm, the toe overlap would disappear.

I once measured the distance from my toe to touching my 700x25 and it was like 2 inches; unfortunately I'm across the country from my bike now or I'd doublecheck. I have yet to figure out how this is possible though given their supposedly identical dimensions and angles but it must be more than just tire diameter. (I have a 56cm also. Surly comes with 170mm cranks too vs WTs 165 but I think you said you put 170 on yours.) 40-50mm tires is pretty xtreme, the Surly does fit up to 700x38 according to their site (but bikesdirect says WT fits up to 700x45, hmm)

Truvativ Omnium (172.5)

I don't own a BD bike because I've never really liked the sizing. For the most part BD frames are too long and low for my liking. I don't really rely on the LBS for anything. If you know what you are doing and look around long enough you can piece together custom bikes at nearly BD prices...thats basically been my strategy for most of my bikes. Also most of the BD SSFG offerings have only become available in the past few years, and I am basically long past needing an entry level bike. But if I did suddenly need a new bike, I would probably by one just because they are so cheap.

Surly's have a notable reputation for basically being bomb-proof. This allows them to price their frames a bit higher. All Surly frames are basic Tiawanese TIGed chromo. They certainly are good strong frames, but there's nothing magic about them. There are lots of other Tiawanese TIGed chromo frames out there that are basically the same thing but are more reasonably priced because they come without the overinflated Surly reputation.

I have 172.5mm cranks so that has something to do with it. The geo is a little altered to accommodate the larger tire, hence that's why there's a slight slope to the TT. I believe the fork is a bit taller than the Steamroller fork.

I have 172.5mm cranks so that has something to do with it. The geo is a little altered to accommodate the larger tire, hence that's why there's a slight slope to the TT. I believe the fork is a bit taller than the Steamroller fork.

I'm off the fence. Spoke to LBS today about the Surly hub issues and they said that they were not aware of this, but also did not know the hubs were adjustable? So, they offered to keep the wheels, give me $100 credit and I could buy my own wheels, but then that just means about another $100 or so net added to the cost, assuming new wheels with shipping would run about $200. Meanwhile, I rummaged through my stash of bike part and found a cheap Soma 3/32 19T cog and a lockring, and I even have spare 1/8 chain links if I need them. So, basically, the Kilo WT will cost $440 and the Steamroller would end up around $1000. Just can't justify the extra cost for the ability to remove the decals on the Surly, and for sure can now afford some really nice tires and really good seat. So, decision made, the winner is the Kilo WT. Ok, guys, so the most important question of all, what color do I get, pearl white, revolution red or emerald green? I'm thinking white is out cuz the tacky decals stand out the most and I'm not really a green sort of guy, so has anyone seen the red bike, and what do you think of it? Thanks.

John10568: Grats on making the decision. Regarding the Surly hubs though: were you just going by what mihlbach had said or did you find other evidence that Surly hubs are a PITA? I haven't had any issues with mine and I've taken my wheel off quite a bit, but I'm curious what you may have found in your research.

Their fork length and rake are supposedly identical, so I guess it's the combination of the 2.5mm crank difference, bigger tires, and sloping TT adding up to the >2" difference leading to the toeverlap.

Well, I did a bunch of googling and found other threads both on BF and other forums that discussed it, and there were both negative and positive reports. I also found Surly's info sheet that specifically stated that the hubs had to be adjusted prior to use and a bunch of legal talk that they weren't warranteed if this wasn't done properly. So, regardless, I don't want the potential hassle and just want a simple bombproof maintenance free bike. About the only thing I expect to do is keep the chain clean and lubed.

Well, the deed is done. Just ordered the Kilo WT in revolution red. Thanks everyone for all the help.

Oh yea I also wear size 12 so that's another factor as well

I wonder what that amounts to versus my 10.5, considering only the length forward of the pedal axle. But yes one more factor.

Hey guys, now that I've received confirmation from BD that the bike has shipped, I'm thinking ahead about some changes. I think I'll wait until have have a chance to try the stock tires, before making any decision as to possibly changing them. However, I'm pretty sure that the stock saddle won't cut it, and so am looking for ideas here for a replacement. My dad had a Brooks pro that he swore by, but the downsides are high cost, heavy weight and long break in. I've heard good talk here about high end saddles like the Fizik Arione, but again we're also talking a high price for this. I definitely want either an all leather saddle like the Brooks or something that is leather covered. I will mostly be riding this bike in street clothes (pants or shorts / boxers or briefs), so I won't have the benefit of padded / absorbent chamois lined cycling shorts. I ride in a semi-race position rather than bolt upright, so I dont need a huge super padded touring saddle. Finally, I don't care about what is considered cool or hip. Thanks again for the help.

I did 50+ miles in the 5 boro bike tour on Sunday with my Brooks Pro (combined total of the ride along with commuting down there and back home). I cannot recommend it enough. It does have a long break in period, but the finished result will leave your butt very very happy. While others were complaining of their butt hurting, I didn't notice a thing with mine. In fact I often forget I have a saddle under me that how comfy it is. It truly is a very comfortable thing once it's broken in. There is no need for padded shorts either as I did the ride with my regular walking shorts and boxer briefs under them. It versatile as well because it used in an aggressive position, semi-upright, or upright position. I ride in a semi position. NOTE: this is just my personal experience with a Brooks Pro and I understand not everyone feels the same. I also have a Brooks B17, Swift, and Swallow and they are ALL very comfortable for me.




I tried an Arione just to be open minded and it was a total hassle to ride on. At first it very comfy, its when the miles go over 20miles that it was hurt my sitbone...really really bad, even with padded cycling shorts. I did the 5 boro tour last year on it and I could not wait to get home off my bike because it was that bad. I didn't have numbness issues, it was just the saddle itself was not good for me at all on anything over 20miles. Needless to say I sold it.

saddles are so personal of course, it's a bit of trial and error

some options
1. buy and use whatever saddle you'd used/enjoyed in the past
2. call around LBS's ask about saddle bins or saddle swap/exchange or saddle demo periods
3. try some out cheaply via craigslist
4. look into getting your sit bones measured, call around LBS's see if any can do it, go from there
5. the percentage of people disliking their brooks after they break in seems to be low, you could take some of the $ you saved on the WT and take the plunge, and probably move it on CL if you concluded it wasn't for you. if you're riding steel you're not a weight weenie, I wouldn't worry about the weight
6. Charge Bucket? cheap

7. (this one's not an option). Be sure to come back here and post your review of that bike, with copious pics. I don't think I've seen pics of the red one in the wild yet