CarLo

Velodrome racers don't really need a longer track frame because they aren't concerned with comfort really. Do they go 4cm down from their road frame size? For example their road size frame is 58cm, and going down to 54cm for track frame. I know they want a lighter frame, and shorter down tube for less flexing during hard acceleration. Can someone clarify this?

Squirrelli

I recently learned that some of the track racers use a slightly narrower bar on the track for stiffness.

milkcratebasket

It depends on what you want. I rode a 60cm road bike until it got stolen and my track bike is 62cm. It makes up for the bb height difference. Basically if your toptube is comfy it doesnt matter the size of the bike(within reason). A lot of modern bikes are smaller height wise compared to toptube size.

You should ask this in the track section.

hairnet

Weight isn't as big an issue on the track like it is on the road and I wouldn't say comfort isn't really an issue. But hey, why not as in the actual track racing forum https://www.bikeforums.net/forumdispl...-Track-Cycling

CarLo

I realized that just now!! whoops!

this conversion to FGSS striked interest in racing at the velodrome.

Squirrelli

Post pictures/write up if you are going to go to the track...which one are you planning to go?

CarLo

not sure yet. I have to do some research. :/ Will need a track bike for sure and so forth.

carleton

I race on the track. My Specialized road bike is a 58cm and my custom track bike is a 57cm. Minus 4cm would be reeeediculous.

The comfort vs non-comfort comes in to play with the seat tube angle. A more upright seat tube ROTATES the rider (and his cockpit) forward which gives track sprinters that stereotypical DEEP and LOW stance. Contrary to popular belief, they aren't hunched over any more than the roadie on the road, he's just rotated forward according to the bottom bracket. "Relaxed" geometry refers to how far back the rider is from the bottom bracket. Road riders sit back and evenly balance their weight on their butts and take the strain off the arms. Same for track endurance riders. But track sprinters are rotated forward giving the deep drop in the handlebars and stuff. The REALLY loads the weight on the arms and shoulders, which isn't a problem being that most sprint races are done in less than 5 minutes. No man can ride a 100 mile road race in that position. So, this is why when folks build conversion track bikes with relaxed geometry (saddle is way back behind the BB) and they put on deeeeep drop bars, the bike is totally uncomfortable and they fold up their bodies trying to ride it.

Head tube angle and fork rake are also different on "sprint" track bikes. They feel really twitchy at low and moderate speeds, but at +40mph they handle like a sports car, nimble and sure.

To see what aggressive sprint geometry is, refer to the LOOK 596 geometry specs. My Tiemeyer is quite similar (actually a tad more aggressive seat tube angle): https://www.lookcycle.com/en/us/piste...ack-frame.html

carleton

Also, if you guys ever want to eyeball how deep someone's bars are, don't look at the stem's rise/fall or how deep the bars are. Just look at the distance from the top of the tire to the handlebar grips. That's a sure way to see how deep or not bars sit because wheel diameters are standard.

When I'm making major changes to my bike's setup (new style bars, new stem angle), I simply measure* the gap from the grip of the bars to the top of the tire. It's all about where my hands are. That's what's important. No need to use calculators or web apps.




*EDIT: To do this, take a string or rubber band and connect it between the two grips, then simply measure from the tire vertically up to the string. Most people have between 1-4".

CarLo

thanks for the insight! So track frames are generally low slung? They often look like 50cm frames even though they mention it being a size 56 or so.

carleton

No problem. I'm not sure what you mean by "low slung". If you saw someone that rode a bike with a top tube 6cm shorter than what they'd ride on a road bike, they'd look like they were on their little sister's bike.

Part of what you may be noticing is that the bars are more narrow and most photos of track racers show them riding in the drops as opposed to most road racers are photographed being on the hoods. That combined with the more narrow bars on the track bike.

For example, here is Mark Cavendish, his fit on the bike and the bike size are almost identical. Just lower in the drops. Notice the angle of his back:

chas58

Me too. I'm addicted now - even bought a 2nd FG to ride at the velodrome as my 1st FG has road geometry and doesn't work at all at the velodrome (head tube is too tall, and bottom bracket is too low -> pedal strike).

Given the bottom bracket on a track bike is higher, and the head tube is lower, your saddle will be higher on a track bike, but your handlebars lower - leading to the positioning in carlton's pictures above.

Just speaking in frames in general (road or track), a larger frame is more comfortable, and a smaller frame is more sporty (I'm talking a 2cm difference here). Given a track bike is meant for racing (if you are riding on the velodrome), you may find yourself with a slightly smaller frame on a track bike. 1 to 2cm smaller is not unusual (4 cm is not going to work).

Your best bet - rent some bikes at the track of your choice, see what fits and feels best, and then you will have some good knowledge when you are ready to buy.

CarLo

yeah, They say my size is 58, but I feel more comfortable with 56 on a road bike. Maybe if i tried 58 on a track bike I'll feel comfortable. I prefer size smaller. I feel like i can't manuerver a 58.

CarLo

Seems like the track bikes have lower top tubes. With a 58cm my nuts are laying on the top tube. ehkkk!! I'm actually riding a frame size 54cm and I'm 6ft tall. But putting the seat max to the back makes me fit comfortably. I lined the 54cm up with my 58cm bike and the distance from the bar to the seat are identical. But the seat on the 58cm is at the center for the rails.

Dr. Banzai

I have stubby legs but a 6'3" body. Adds up to 5'9 1/2". I ride a sloping top tube 55. The top tube is 550mm long and it feels just right on or off the track. When I go to the track comfort matters as I can sometimes be on there for over an hour putting laps in with sprints in between (intervals).

Smaller bikes are my preference, but banging your knees on the stem sucks.

Squirrelli

Let say I want to buy a new bike and I'm caught between size.

My bike has a 56cm top tube, and the bike I'm looking to buy is either 55cm and 57cm, which one should I go for?

Dr. Banzai

Study the geometry hard and focus on top tube length. I nailed my torso length first. There is no 4mm allen key to adjust my top tube like a seat post. Stem length and saddle center can be played with a bit.

Center the saddle and measure from the tip to the bars. Does it match your fit numbers? If the 56 comes up short then go for a 57 and also the inverse with the 55.

TejanoTrackie 

How long is your stem? If it's no more than 110mm, I'd say go with the 55cm frame and get a 1cm longer stem. Otherwise, get the 57cm frame and get a 1cm shorter stem.

Dr. Banzai

^---- listen to the man. The top tube length and it determining where you sit is critical in making your stroke a power stroke. The stem makes you aero. That's the simple version of it.

Squirrelli

That's what I thought as well, I only have a 100mm stem.

I was just looking at different framesets today, the cheaper ones like Mark V, Leader 722, KHS Flite 100 etc etc and was thinking of buying a frameset on my birthday. No real rush or anything bit I was just curious.

Thanks, Doc and Tejano, always looking out for me.