vladuz976

what options do I have with regards to the geometry if I wanted to get a custom made steel track frame?

fork and rear width I know I have a choice, but there is a common widths that fit most hub, that I should go with.
but other than specifying the tube length and bottom bracket height, is there more options I can play around with?

bleedingapple

better posted in the frame builders forum, but ill chime in with what i can. So really a lot depends on your frame builder. That and if you go lugs or fillet brazed or TIG. The Latter 2 offer more geometry options, unless you have the money to throw at custom lugs. For track the most common hub width is 120mm. Its basically 110mm for BMX and Kirin, 120mm for track, 130mm for road and 135mm for MTB.

And again depending on the builder and the depth of your wallet there are all kinds of crazy angles you can get built up. However it may not be a very comfortable bike at that point LOL! hope this helps.

Squirrelli

There's a lot you could play with; angles, tubings, tubing sizes, chainstays length, rear triangle material, fork rake, fork length etc etc.

But do you really need a custom frame?

cc700

this is like asking how many people you could make if you were to **** around with the genome.

the whole point of custom is that you choose the build.

if i were you i would get 74/75 angles 120mm spacing and stiff steel tubes, tig welded if your builder's good at it.

but at that point, you could just get a professional fit and find a production track bike that fits those specs.

i'm actually considering selling my cross and track bikes and saving up for a custom Ti track bike. there are tons of builders here in seattle. or a steel Winter cycles bike, because I really like eric's style and finish.

I really can't decide right now, but I kind of hate having three bikes and not being happy with any of them because of various things.

and Vix... no one needs a custom frame. no one needs to ride a bike. we chose our own path in life and that's what makes it worth living.

Squirrelli

I was trying to say this but then...
...I realize this.



Totally sigworthy.

vladuz976

I have three builders relatively close by. Kalavinka Georama and Samson.
all make lugged steel frames. about the same price range. I have to make an appointment and go see
them. they just told me in their emails that tubing and geometry is very important. don't know what they meant by that. I wad hoping they can give me
some advice on that. but maybe I just didnt understand their
Japanese correctly.
I was just thinking I could get some advice here from people who
had one custom built before.

vladuz976

No, don't really need a custom frame. But by the time I find a mass-produced frame I really like and have that imported to Japan (because 54cm is the biggest size available in Japan) I end up paying close to what I would pay for a custom made steel frame.
With the custom made steel frame I have the option of having the fork brake-hole drilled. I can get the perfect size, and I can chose design and color.

milkcratebasket

With kalavinka, you wont hve the option. He doesn't sell track bikes to people without them unless you can prove you actually race. I think you are too uneducated for a custom frame at this point based on this and your previous threads. Just buy a used bike, read about bikes and tinker with yours before dropping １５００００円 on a frame. You still need to buy everything else. If you are going to buy more njs parts for them, new, you are going to spend another xxxxxx円.

milkcratebasket

I should add, １５００００円 is going to get you the most base model they offer. Sometimes it is more than that too.

vladuz976

that's what I meant. I want my fork drilled. most used frames will not have that. but I guess a clamp on brake is good enough.
I pretty much have everything else, and everything else is pretty easy to get used. But probably you're right. I'm maybe better off with a used frame for now.

dsh

Hey.

Guy.

If all you care about with your "custom" frame is having a fork drilled for a brake, then just go buy a fork drilled for a brake. And have it shipped. To Japan. It may even cost you A HUNDRED DOLLARS. But it's a lot more cost effective than having a custom frame build by a world-renowned builder when the extent of your knowledge and preference is "I want a fork drilled for a brake".

mconlonx

Talk to the custom shop builders. They'll walk you through the process. Or show you the door.

cc700

if you promise to stop making dumb threads i'll even ship you my drilled cinelli fork for the cost of postage.

if not, at least post detail when they show you the door... preferrably with detail and high quality translation with every vulgar detail.

dsh

I like how, of all the sundry things that can be specified when designing a custom frame, he picks:

1) Top tube length
2) Bottom Bracket height
3) Drilled / undrilled fork

FastJake

Sorry, but you don't know enough to warrant a custom frame if you "don't know what they meant...that tubing and geometry are very important."

Hey, neither do I, but maybe someday I'll think about getting one if I can't find what I'm looking for. I kinda doubt that'll ever happen though, because there are SO MANY bikes out there. If you can't find something you like you aren't trying hard enough. Does it really cost that much to ship a bike to Japan? Or if having a drilled fork is the issue, can't you just buy a roadie fork and install it on whatever bike you buy?

vladuz976

Guy,
I didn't say "I want a fork drilled for a brake", I'm saying it gives me such an option without having to buy an extra fork and pay 100bucks for shipping. And that was one option as an example, not THE reason why I want the frame. Maybe I can also ship you my frame and you'll drill the hole and paint it again, so I can route my rear brake cable.
Anyways, when I ask for advice on a mass-produced frame, people point to custom frames being the better option, as the price difference is not that big. When I ask about a custom frame, people say mass-produced is better. I think I get it, the more rude and negative your post is on here, the more credit you get.

vladuz976

Thanks for being sorry, but I think by "tubing and geometry are very important" they meant they want you to come in and have a pretty good idea about tubing and geometry.
Sorry if you misread it, but that was a rough translation.

btw, it costs about $100 dollars for a frame to ship, plus whatever they decide to tax you.
The problem is you're always buying something you weren't able to try (size-wise) before buying.

Cynikal 

I think what everyone s trying to say here is that you need to have a really good idea of what you want before stepping into the framebuilder's shop. You don't need to know about angles and such but you need to know what type of riding you will be doing. let the framebuilder figure out the material and build specs for you.

XianRL

My suggestion is to not be so zero sum. By that I mean you have more than option a) paying for shipping and option b) building a custom frame.

There's a lot of gray there. Is there no LBS you can visit to try some frame sizes and talk about custom builds? I did a search for "fixed gear frame" on eBay exclusively to Japan. Pretty much all NJS, but if you're willing to drop a ton on a custom frame, I imagine these are a major cut in your costs, right?

I'm just saying you don't have to pay an extra $100 for shipping, and the alternate isn't buying/building a custom frame. Consider the gray area.

I'm not so sure about people recommending custom frames when you ask about mass ones, and vice versa. There are reasons for the "Show us your Madison/Leader/Hour..." threads. Yes, I'm sure some mass-produced frames are junk. But at the same time, certain frames are popular for more than aesthetics. And I believe there's often a huge price difference between custom and mass produced. Maybe not always, but more often than not. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

dsh

I stopped taking this thread seriously when it came out that the UNIMAGINABLY EXPENSIVE OVERSEAS SHIPPING which justifies getting a custom frame built by Kalavinka was... $100.

Buy a Steamroller or Godzilla or Gutterball or Gazzetta or Vigorelli or whatever, and pay the damn $100 shipping.

adriano 

no, spend lots of money.

milkcratebasket

Why not get your current frame drilled?

Ken Cox

Vladuz976 asks a valid question.

With a track frame, you don't have very many options.

The label "track frame" pretty much dictates the geometry.

A truly knowledgeable frame maker can fine tune aspects of the frame that, in my opinion, most people could not and would not appreciate.

Things like mixing the tubing between 631, 725 and 853 (Mercian will do that for you if you ask the right questions).

With a custom maker, in this application, you will a reasonable fit, good quality of manufacture, the color of your choice, and the not insignificant value of a famous name bike.

If you have the money, don't let these sour-grapes guys talk you out of it.

I lack a piece of the puzzle, though.

How much does the Japanese government protect its bike industry?

Would you have to pay an import penalty for a Surly Steamroller?

Personally, I'd buy a Surly Steamroller Complete and ride it for awhile.

Then, after I knew more about what I like and don't like, I'd upgrade the wheels and tires, followed by the crank set and pedals.

If I rode with brakes, which I don't, I'd want the latest Dura Ace in front and nothing in back.

If you start with a Steamroller, you can afford expensive wheels, crank sets and brakes.

Enjoy.

Let us know what you decided to do.

bleedingapple

Does that offer hold true for PDX?

bleedingapple

I am on the same page... though custom Ti is a lot of saving... I want a Ti CX/ track frame...