don't waste your time with that eigthinch, i agree with sherblock get a republic they're the ****!

What are you going to be using this bike for, and what is your budget? Its kinda hard to suggest something without knowing this.
I just had pancakes with blueberry syrup and breakfast sausage.

primarily going to use it for getting to school and commuting etc. no tricks but i want a tough frame. my budget is pretty open cause i dont want to buy crap but would like to save a few bucks also. 800 max...
that butcher is pretty much the top of my budget but it looks very good. xept for the crank. is that bike offered with a track bike crank. is a 35 tooth chain ring the same diameter as a 45 tooth one? sorry my newbness is showing... zip...

ah never mind i found my answer...
28T = 116mm
32T = 132mm
34T = 141mm
36T = 149mm
38T = 157mm
44T = 182mm
48T = 199mm

thats sick they offer different sizes of cranks and complete customization of colors etc. i think we have a winner! but still shopping and will take any reasonable advise on the way to my purchase.

Go with the Kilo WT, that other bike is a trick bike. At least you will have brakes with the Kilo.

hairnet, the only reason im considering the butcher is its completely built like i want. flat handlebars, large tires, decent petals and seat etc... the wt would need new pedals seat and bars and brakes immediately before i even ride it. that at least a couple bills to modify to my liking. i know the kilo is a good base to build off but it would cost almost as much as the butcher before i was done. also the butcher site says it comes with a front brake included...
decisions decisions...

But the butcher is a trick bike... and you arent doing tricks. You can get the Kilo WT set-up(or one of many other options) for well under $800, and have a solid commuter.

i thought you guys were anti bikes direct im surprised you are really trying to push the merc. i will take your recommendations seriously and continue to shop around. the wt was first on my list and is still a contender, but that butcher looks super sturdy. i hate buying cheap crap and i know there are people here who dislike the mercs but it looks like not so many people have experience with the butcher...
is it so much different than a track bike? i wonder if its really heavy...

hey whats the difference between a 16 17 and 18 tooth cog?

The thing that sucks about the Kilo is the wheelset, but if you go overhaul the hubs and tension the spokes then everything should be good to go. It's a take on the Surly Steamroller, if you care to buy that instead.

Can we go back to talking about snacks now?

hey whats a good solid gear ratio for flat in city riding? the butcher offers a 45t/16t ratio and i wonder if that would be a good combination for the riding im looking to do.

..

ok ill bite... whats the difference between a trick bike and a commuter?

A trick bike is mainly meant for short distances a la trick riding while a commuter is for commuting.

so its because the frame is heavier? why cant the butcher be a commuter?

I actually don't see why you can't use a tricktrack/FGFS bike as a commuter, as long as the saddle is raised to a reasonable level.

It's against the rules.

Buying the butcher and using it for commuting is like buying a hummer and driving your kids to soccer practice.

So, what's wrong with that? Lots of folks here in the great state of Texas do exactly that.

There is absolutely nothing "wrong" with it, its just stupid

Wut, u callin' us Texans stupid?

Depends, do you drive a hummer to soccer practice? hahaha

Nah, that's for wimpy soccer moms. I drive a Bradley with a gun turret and armor plate.

Maybe you should get a butcher for your commute then

Absolutely, I always do stair drops and bar spinz on my commute.