Fronts might drag on stuff offroad - not rears. I use two fronts and a larger seat bag sometimes, but you have to pack fairly light and limit the bulk.

I've used external frames, internal frames, and frameless packs. When I started out more than 50 years ago external frames were everywhere. (I don't think internal frames had even been invented, yet, though I could be wrong.) I transitioned to frameless packs sometime in the mid to late 70s after seeing how much better they typically performed off-trail and, especially, after I took up cross-country skiing. As for frameless packs, I have only used a 20(?)-litre one as a day pack or for over-nighters. I've run into people on PCT going ultralight--under 15 pounds--it's not for me. I typically use one of my 35 to 50 litre packs, carrying about 20-25 pounds (pack, pad/bag/bivy/tarp or tent--too many different configurations to list, and a very few supplies) + food and water. Size really depends on how much food and water I have needed to pack and the season for extra clothes. (These are not big packs by backpacking standards: How to Choose a Backpack - REI Expert Advice - REI Expert Advice) I did try a 70-litre military rucksack for winter camping once. (I hiked into the Deams Wilderness in the Hoosier National Forest for a week long trip where I had to pack all my food and winter gear.) That was a strain, so I switched to pulling a pulk for a few winter camps in the wilderness, though I'm too old for it now. In fact, I feel like I'm getting too old for hauling much of anything, on my back or through my hips, hence a bike!

BTW, glad to hear steep roads are not a problem in Colorado, maybe I'll push on to Utah and do some more gem prospecting! ;-)

I have not had to replace a spoke since the 1980s. I still carry them, but they can be the least convenient item you carry for access. For most people, the spokes will last as long as the bike.

I wrap a piece of electrical tape around my seatpost about 5mm above the frame to tell me where teh post goes. I use that gap of about 5mm so that can easily see if the seatpost slid down, no gap means it moved.

I'm going for versatility. Yes, I plan on using roads (TransAmerica) to Colorado. I'm hoping to go off-road after I get there. So, I'm looking at gear that will not be best for any one thing, but serviceable for on- and off-trail. (The stock tires on my bike are closer to road ones, I think. WTB Nano Comp, 26 x 2.1) If I can climb over the Rockies, I'd like to camp in southern Utah. I have lots of time to learn and change my ideas, though! Maybe I'll switch tires and set-up after I get to Colorado...too early to say.

just ziptie half a dozen spokes to one of the rear rack supports where they be out of the way.

Wrap a bit of foam around your spokes (and thread them through the foam at the top and bottom) and just pop them inside your seatpost.

You do understand. You rarely need them, and "all the necessary seatpost adjustment" takes less than a minute. I can get my seatpost right to within a couple of mm by eye, but marking it is easy, too.

I was just reading about the Katy Trail in Missouri. I think that I will incorporate it in my route.

The Nano Comps don't look like they are very road friendly. Looking at the tread, I'd call them a good off-pavement to moderately good single track tire. But they wouldn't be that good on-road, especially if you are doing a lot of miles before you hit the off-pavement part. All you'll do is speed a lot of energy wearing down the knobs and making them useless by the time you reach the "off-pavement" part. Use a smoother tire for the on-road part and switch tires to a more aggressive off-pavement tire once you get here. I'm not trying to talk you out of going off-pavement (different from "off-road") in Colorado but don't waste energy when you don't need to.

Going a bit off-topic, I can help you with route planning in Colorado. I really doubt that you want to do single track across Colorado unless you are particularly masochistic. I know the state very well and can suggest a number of routes that include moderate road grades across the state as well as some better routes than those suggested by Adventure Cycling, particularly along the TransAmerica. You can either PM me or we can do it in the open forum.

I am always grateful for any advice/help I can get! In this case, though, my plans are in such a state of flux, or evolving if you will, that I am afraid that it is too early to get very specific. For example, I joined warmshowers.org (bicycle community with reciprocal hosting services) after seeing it in Apple apps. In their forum, I saw someone post about riders joining up for a trip on the Katy Trail--it runs east-west for about 240 miles over crushed limestone in Missouri. (I haven't decided whether to join the OP yet--I think that he will be leaving before I can give my students their final exam, or maybe I give them a take home that they email to me! He starts less than 30 miles from my house, and he's going from Chicago-land to Colorado by way of Route 66--Katy Trail--TransAmerica.) I also noticed another, even longer, trail across Nebraska (Cowboy Trail) but that would be way out of my way. Maybe I can find another long trail across Kansas? LOL

Who's to say whether I wear out the stock tires long before I leave?! And yesterday I showed my wife photos of the nearby Erie-Lackawanna Trail (https://www.traillink.com/trail-photo...a-trail.aspx); she got so excited that I bought her a simple cruiser bike to get her started. Devious, ain't I? LOL

There should be some tires out there that are reasonably good for both. I have used the (now discontiued) Schwalbe Marathon Extreme for off road and on road riding. Noisy on road, but rolled almost as efficiently as some of my road tires. And I had good grip off road.

The tire in the photo is 57mm wide. Sorry I don't have a better photo.

Check with Trailnet in St. louis they can tell you about some paths into IL.

The Old Chain of Rocks Bridge is a great way to cross the Mississippi River - when it's open. It's often locked.

The easiest way from the Katy Trail into Illinois is the Clark Bridge in Alton, IL. RAAM uses it. The Clark Bridge has very wide shoulders and is part of a bike path system.

Thanks. I've been looking at TrailLink.com So far, I have a tentative route to Chicago Heights to pick up Thorne Creek Trail-->Old Plank Road Trail (ends just east of Joliet)-->then pick up Illinois & Michigan Canal State Trail, which should get me within a few miles of the Mississippi. Have a few more sections to fill in on the way to Katy Trail, though.

I'm a proponent of using knobbies where they are called for and have no real problem running them on the road but running them on the road for a few hundred to a few thousand miles before you hit the point where they are needed just wears out the tires and saps your energy. I wouldn't suggest carrying extra tires but purchasing and swapping out to an off-road tire when you get to the point where you need them is easier on you and the tires. No sense wearing down tires just to wear them down.

There are only portions of the Cowboy Trail that are completed but I think you can ride even the parts that aren't finished yet. I was going to suggest it but it is rather far north. On the other hand, the Sand Hills are very pretty and there's a lot of history on the western end at Fort Robinson. There's the old Fort, Toadstool Geologic area and the Hudson-Meng bison kill site in the Crawford area.

Although I am loath to suggest another state, you might also want to consider aiming for South Dakota and the Black Hills and/or Wyoming and Yellowstone rather than Colorado and Utah. Utah gets warm in the summer.

I just havent ever found 2 panniers to be difficult to find stuff in, and like carrying 2 bags instead of 4 when possible. Ill never be called UL, but if i dont need to bring extra bags and a rack, then all the better.

As for the bear canister, I havent used one, dont own one, and only mentioned it because the OP specifically brought it up.

Any time I have messed with my seat or seatpost it has taken me days to get it back right. Maybe just me. I think I'll look for exterior placement for extra spokes, I do see he point of seatpost carrying of spokes.
Thanks!

zipties are your friends. i gots a ziptie on the seatpost to
mark seatpost height. gotta remove the post for travel.

and didn't someone mention sticking the spokes in
the handlebars? why, you could even stuff them in
the steering tube under the topcap, push 'em through
a foam plug above the starnut.

Depends a lot on the bike and total load on the bike. What might work fine on a LHT might not work as well on a CrossCheck. That said keeping the load light and close to the frame triangle makes for better handling than a pile of weight in a set of panniers front or rear. For off road riding having the load tight and secure to the frame or rack is better than a loose pannier load bouncing around.
I wouldnt focus on percentages as much as what works best for your bike and load.

I think this is where you can make mistakes according to catalog shopping and general images of touring loads based on what you know now and not what works best for that bike after having ridden it with different load combos.
A big rear load can work for a bike with long chainstays but I'm not sure if that describes your Ogre although the rear wheel does have a range of adjustment.
Instead of getting big rear bags start off with small front bags that can be located front or rear. Experiment with those smaller bags and a reasonable touring load of 25-30lbs in various configurations instead of committing to hundreds of dollars of stuff that may end up staying home.

Spreading the load is a great idea. Different bikes call for different configurations, and the route, weather and availability of food and water means you may need to carry more or less gear and supplies. Here are my basic light, medium and heavy touring setups.

45liter rear panniers are not small for bike touring, they are large.
Why 28spoke hub? There is no practical advantage with low spoke count and touring especially w 700c/29" rims.

A frame bag is useful for securing loads within the frame for better handling and taking loads from the ends. A small frame bag is useful if you want room for water bottles in the frame. Your tools won't be greasy but it is nice to have tube/tire repair essentials in one place on the bike all the time.

Son 28 is just the dynamo hub model number, I believe. I'm not changing the wheel.

I'm just collecting information at this point! My latest thought is to start with the Revelate framebag that is custom made for the Ogre. Then I'll try loading it and putting my tent, with maybe my bed roll, on the Jones loop handlebar to see how it handles.

BTW, the chainstay length on the Ogre is about 3 cm shorter than the LHT, according to the Surly web site. I'm totally oblivious to how much of an effect that will have on loading.

Edit: I'm looking at adding fenders immediately for winter riding. So far, I'm leaning to the Planet Bike Cascadia 29ers. Actually, I first need pedals, since it doesn't come with any!

I gather light to heavy from top to bottom. Would you share your approximate load weights (or even just volume) for each setup, please.