elcruxio

You may of course imagine whatever you please, such as comments not really directed your way are actually insults against you. I'll keep on commenting on the 920 since it's an interesting topic. You don't have to participate, especially if you feel my comments are constantly directed towards you (they aren't, you are not the center of this forum for me or anyone else)

I sure would like to see where surly themselves say that the LHT is only a peg above a department store bike. I think you may have either imagined it or have misunderstood something they wrote. Although I'm not having high hopes for a direct quote or link provided by you since you have not really provided anything concrete to back up any of your claims in terms of the LHT or other steel bikes or 4130 steel's inferiorioty (the same stuff CoMotion uses funnily enough, must be very inferior) or wheel strenght etc etc etc.

saddlesores

not an expert, but isn't internal routing normally done such that
there are inlets/outlets brazed onto the tubing that the cable housing
can slide thru? that wouldn't affect the integrity of the tubing.

https://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...0&d=1460167122

920 got a big 'ol hole at the bottom of the downtube! again, not
an expert, but it would seem that attachment to the bottom bracket
would be a major stress point on a frame. this looks like an
accident waiting to happen. sorta like putting 28-spoke wheels
on a bike designed to look like a loaded touring bike.

wonder if the 920 comes with a coupon.....half off a darwin award?

Squeezebox

You're right you are not an expert, neither am I !
I'll see if Trek will release stress test results.
It does come with a lifetime frame warranty. We'll see what the framebuilder forum has to say about it. It's way past time you dropped the crap about 28 spokes.

saddlesores

saddlesores

now i don't get this.........why so heavy? it's like over(zombie)kill to put nearly 3 pounds
of racks on a bike with wheels that won't support the weight if loaded for zombie-bear.

they shoulda gone with a matched set of lightweight alu racks at 1000 grams or so for
the pair. the front could be similar to the nashbar mini-platform mounting to the
brake studs.....of course in terminator khaki. this would give the sales-geneers the
chance to push those really groovy fork bags! come to think of it, why
not extra mounting points on the seatstays....then they could flog two
pairs of super groovy bags.

mstateglfr 

Just a few days ago, you posted a thread in the mechanics forum asking about 28 spome wheels and looking for confirmation they would be ok.
If you arent dropping it, why should others?

Also, i mentioned this earlier in the thread and it was ignored (no surprise). Why do you argue that trek engineers know what they are doing when it comes to 28 spked wheels, yet you made a ton of changes to the bike? Wouldnt they know best when it comes to those other components?

HTupolev

Probably so they can advertise that they included racks without adding much manufacturing cost on decently lightweight ones.

Squeezebox

There have been some answers on the framebuilding thread. Check there. Scooper who posts more tech info than anyone else says no problem. Talk to him about it, or produce your more advanced tech sheets. Along with the specs of the test equipment you've used for your stress tests.

Squeezebox

So what are the weights of Surly racks? I've heard they are very heavy. Please correct me me with real data. Idiot opinions don't count.

Happy Feet

Look in the dictionary under ironic and you will see this

saddlesores

apples and rutabegas again, squiggy!

don't matter what racks, if any, you mount on the surly.
why? the surly IS a touring bicycle. (possibly even "inferior" steel?)
'tis designed to carry the weight...with real touring-grade wheels.

the 920 is NOT a touring bike. it's merely touring-style....and not
in a good way. what idiot marketingeneers would put those massive
racks on a bike not intended for heavy-duty touring? i mean, c'mon,
check out those wheels!



nah, the 920 is for middle-aged farts who wanna look terminator
cool. you know, they overpay for an image. they need the style,
forget the substance. but then, these are the guys that name
their bikes before they even buy them. as though mass-produced
inferior carp had a soul. heck, i hear some guys even buy
stickers with their bikes name, again, before purchase. sheesh!

indyfabz

At over 3 lbs., the front is extremely heavy. Don't know abut the rear. But...The bike is not marketed with the racks. And see post #122 .

Squeezebox

I disagree. The LHT appears to be a glorified department store bicycle, made by a company that possibly does not have an engineering dept or testing equipment. You might be able to call it it a touring bicycle but you sure can't call it quality.
Trek does have an extensive aggressive engineering dept, lots of the best testing equipment. My guess is that the engineering dept has priority over the marketing dept. Unlike Chinese companies.
The 920 is a pretty good touring bicycle, there are better touring bicycles. The LHT sure ain't on the list.

Squeezebox

Because they make a lot of tough mountain bicycles with 28 spokes, and they have the testing equipment.

Do you??


So I don't like bar ends or triple cranks. Not exactly an engineering issue.
The quality of the steel and general attitude about components is an engineering issue.
I've said my piece to Trek's marketing dept., Have you??
I'll call Surley in the morning.

elcruxio

You don't have anything to back those claims. You don't actually know anything about the testing or engineering departments of Trek, or Surly for that matter. I don't either, but I also don't make wild claims about them.
But would you say that the Trek 520 is a capable touring bike? It's designed by Trek and is their most popular touring bike, bought by people who know about bicycle touring and want durability as well as 36 spoke wheels.

Also, the world disagrees with you. While people who have actually toured seem to snicker about the 920, the LHT is held in high regard as a very capable touring machine. I wonder why that is. Does it mean that you are right without having any first hand touring experience and the people who have actual experience, the majority of bicycle tourists, are wrong? Could be, but I doubt it.

elcruxio

I make wheels. Hence I know about them. HA!

Anyways, with my extensive artisan knowledge I now declare that 28 spokes is not enough for fully loaded touring if you have not used special methods to reinforce the wheel and such methods are not present in the 920 wheelset. It's just a very ordinary wheelset with too few spokes.

indyfabz

I didn't think it would be possible, but this thread gets more ridiculous by the day, especially with SB's contradictory and unsupported assertions and opinions. It needs to be locked, but I doubt that will happen.

Meanwhile, I am hoping to take another trip on my "department store" LHT this weekend.

mstateglfr 

How do you not recognize the hilarity of you telling someone to drop the 28 spokes discussion when you are starting threads about 28 spokes and continuing the discussion?!?

No I dont have testing equipment to test 28 spokes. I dont even know what that means, actually. What equipment exactly are you asking me about? I have, for the most part, stayed out of the 28 spoke argument since I dont have background in the physics of wheel use. Others clearly have the background, have explained how it works, and you have not only dismissed their points but then claimed they are 'hating' on you.


In another thread, you mentioned changing the following- "changing brakes, shifters, cassette, tires, fenders, probably front rack/bags"
So all of that was apparently preference and OK to change, yet the wheels are a 'trust the engineers' thing?!?
Seems like your approach is just inconsistent and applies only when you want it to apply.

If the engineers wanted you to have more spokes, they would have given you more spokes. Thats your argument and you claim the wheels will be good because you trust the engineers. But why dont you trust the brakes or cassette they gave you?

My point of highlighting what you have changed already is to show you(I have failed since you continue to not see it) that when Trek builds up a bike it isnt some big collaborative team with engineers leading the way. A price point is decided on for a type of bike and they get to work figuring out what components and manufacturing processes will allow for a bike to be made at that price point while being profitable and evoking an image and desire to purchase by the consumer.
Wheels are components just like derailleurs and seatposts.
You dont trust the tires that the 'engineers' used for so you get new tires without even using the originals? Why dont the engineers know best when it comes to tires but they know best when it comes to the rim choice?

OEM Wheels are simply a component with a price point, just like everything else. They are consumable, just like most everything on a bike.


I have never talked to Trek's marketing department. The fact that you have, or claim to have, is a mix of creepy and awesome(in a funny and sad way). I dont own any Trek bikes or products so I have no need or reason to talk to Trek.
I dont know why you will call Surly this morning. You dont own a Surly, I dont own a Surly, and I have no idea what you would hope to get out of Surly to make this conversation any less terrible than it already is.


Go ride your bike. For all that is good, get it out go kill some Zombies...or whatever you dream of doing on it.

saddlesores

oh, please lord, no! i need a reason to get up in the morning! even before
i take the first hit off the bucket of expresso, i wanna see what squiggy has
posted!

Salamandrine 

Of course it's impossible to say without insider knowledge, but IMO it's really doubtful that engineers are the project leads on something like this. More likely business and marketing people, followed by industrial designer(s), and then probably checked out by engineer(s).

28 spoke wheels on a supposed touring bike is just stoopid. One broken spoke and you're stuck. It only makes sense if you don't actually use it as a touring bike, which probably is what 90% of the target market is going to do.

indyfabz

Did you catch the double posting in the helmet thread that was recently moved?

indyfabz

It's even stoopider when you consider how the bike is marketed:

"When the pavement ends, 920 is just getting started. This rugged adventure tourer sports 29er wheels and an off-road drivetrain, giving you endless room to roam.

"Don’t let a little bit of gravel dissuade you. 920 is equipped to handle whatever lies on or off the beaten path, while carrying the cargo that matters most."

saddlesores

assume that would be brains as zombie bait carried in the fork bags?

indyfabz

That's a grey matter area. See what I did there?

Happy Feet

Just met a guy on Saturday who has been touring North America on a loaded LHT for a long time. Heavier set fellow with a European accent (wish I'd asked his name). Not bad for a glorified dept. store bike.

The best bike is the one that gets ridden.

Where my thrift store bike took me yesterday: