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Old 07-01-16, 02:54 PM
  #226  
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This is eBike crap for lazy affluent people so the can feel good about themselves for the least effort possible.

You real bicycle people who think there's any good in this should be ashamed!

Shame! Shame! SHAME!
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Old 07-01-16, 02:58 PM
  #227  
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Originally Posted by BigAura View Post
This is eBike crap for lazy affluent people so the can feel good about themselves for the least effort possible.
Isn't that what biking is all about? Why not just walk? Why have a bike at all?
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Old 07-01-16, 02:58 PM
  #228  
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Show me one single study where this has help anyone with a disability or improved the health outcomes for those doing it.

Shame! Shame! SHAME!
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Old 07-01-16, 03:05 PM
  #229  
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
Isn't that what biking is all about? Why not just walk? Why have a bike at all?
Somewhat true, but its not required that you be affluent. $50 bikes are fine. Riding takes real effort. Regular cycling does promote positive health outcomes.

They 750watt motors pushing them! Even Euro 250watt motors are substantial. Subtract from a normal effort and can see what is going on.

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Old 07-01-16, 03:08 PM
  #230  
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Originally Posted by BigAura View Post
Somewhat true, but its not required that you be affluent. $50 bikes are fine. Regular cycling does promote positive health outcomes.
What does affluence have to do with this discussion? And there are plenty of fat cyclists around. You don't need a bicycle to be healthy. Walking or running work just as well if not better.
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Old 07-01-16, 03:28 PM
  #231  
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
What does affluence have to do with this discussion? And there are plenty of fat cyclists around. You don't need a bicycle to be healthy. Walking or running work just as well if not better.
The discussion is eBikes and the fact that they are motorized vehicles but declared by law to be bicycles. People are told they are the same because the law says so. Bike shops make money selling them to affluent people who think they are fun. Those people don't buy bikes. People get even fatter!

Walking and running are great but people are riding motor-bikes so they don't have the time.

Good point on fat cyclists though. People need to eat healthy too!
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Old 07-01-16, 03:32 PM
  #232  
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I just hope in five years my grandson doesn't ask me "Grandpa why doesn't your bicycle have a motor like mine!".
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Old 07-01-16, 04:01 PM
  #233  
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Originally Posted by BigAura View Post
Sorry I've seen ZERO reports and/posts from disabled persons as to how they use eBikes. The Electric Bike Report has lots of reports about the tech and shows able bodied people who choose to be lazy. Video after video shows regular people & children barely pedaling and going fast. This whole industry is motor-biking plane and simple. Sickening waste because these unfit folks could be getting real exercise and be less of a burden on our healthcare system. I'm sure that their fitness trackers are congratulating them on a what a great job they are doing cycling.

It's actually a lot worse than I thought. There's an entire industry that will be impossible to unwrap. The loopholes they have created are more than likely already entrenched because they are making money. This is very sad to see.
Never said anything about disabled persons... I said people who need just a little help, more people would use bicycles with a little help. and it's true, I bet bicycle use in Europe has gone up since E-Bikes became legal bicycles. So it's working well there, and they don't have people riding those bicycles without PEDALING AND I MEAN REALLY PEDALING, why? Because then they would go nowhere fast...


As for here in N. America How many times do I need to say, Yes, it's a fail, and it's a fail for exactly the reasons you are saying, overpowered motors. But the basic principle would work here too if it wasn't for the lax E-Bike laws, thus It's a fail because of the lax laws allowing for too much "assist" that isn't an assist anymore but it's really a motor bike, BUT, I REPEAT. It wouldn't be a fail even in N. America if we had the same rules as in Europe, IMO...
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Old 07-01-16, 04:14 PM
  #234  
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Originally Posted by BigAura View Post
The discussion is eBikes and the fact that they are motorized vehicles but declared by law to be bicycles. People are told they are the same because the law says so. Bike shops make money selling them to affluent people who think they are fun. Those people don't buy bikes. People get even fatter!
Why do you care if they're motorized? They're mostly ridden on roads which handle cars, bikes and e-bikes just fine.

As far as riding on MUPs, pedestrians don't like cyclists and evidently a couple of cyclists don't like e-bikes. They seem to get along fine though.

Affluence is a red herring as you don't need to be affluent to spend $3-7k on a bike or e-bike.
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Old 07-01-16, 05:07 PM
  #235  
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
Affluence is a red herring as you don't need to be affluent to spend $3-7k on a bike or e-bike.
But most only affluent people do.
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Old 07-01-16, 05:14 PM
  #236  
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
Why do you care if they're motorized? They're mostly ridden on roads which handle cars, bikes and e-bikes just fine.

As far as riding on MUPs, pedestrians don't like cyclists and evidently a couple of cyclists don't like e-bikes. They seem to get along fine though.
They are on the MUP and the have motors.

And there are dirt ones in the back-country.

Suffice it to say I think legally defining bicycle as a motor vehicle is absurd.

Read through my posts in this thread to see more points.
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Old 07-01-16, 05:18 PM
  #237  
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Originally Posted by BigAura View Post
Suffice it to say I think legally defining bicycle as a motor vehicle is absurd.
Regardless of how they're defined what difference does it make to you? Do they threaten you in some way? Surely automobiles are a far bigger threat to your safety than an occasional e-bike?

Does it bother you to be passed by a cyclist? Are you against faster riders of any type or just those on an e-bike?
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Old 07-01-16, 05:19 PM
  #238  
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Originally Posted by BigAura View Post
But most only affluent people do.
You've got a low definition of affluence.
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Old 07-01-16, 05:37 PM
  #239  
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
You've got a low definition of affluence.
Whatever.

My point is it's sad that these motorized contraptions are legally called bicycles.

$11,000:
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Old 07-01-16, 05:40 PM
  #240  
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Originally Posted by BigAura View Post
This is eBike crap for lazy affluent people so the can feel good about themselves for the least effort possible.

You real bicycle people who think there's any good in this should be ashamed!

Shame! Shame! SHAME!

BigAura, please think twice before you start telling folks to be ashamed.
I'm not sure what you think you mean by "real bicycle people", so here are some of my bona fides: Started riding in 2010, worked my way up from sucking wind with an 8 mile flat commute to doing a 400 mile bike tour this time last summer. If you look over in the Clydesdale & Athena section -- since it seems like you only care about riding for fitness and weight loss -- you'll find tour reports.

A few months ago, Something Bad happened to my knees. I'm not sure what yet, despite visits to multiple specialists, Xrays, MRI, needles getting fluid out, and needles putting medicine in. Right now, if I want to ride, I need to start on a bike that's already rolling -- I don't have the strength to generate the torque to get the bike moving from a standstill, but I can keep it moving once it gets rolling. That means that if I want to ride at all, I need an ebike.

So -- should I sit home and do nothing, or do what I can? Is my reason good enough? Do I meet your standards?

Which leads to the next question, of course: why do you care why other people ride? Maybe you see someone who is new at this whole idea, who likes the security of being able to handle hills. Maybe someone can't do 6 miles yet, but wants to find some goddam way to get moving, somehow, at all. Maybe you're running into someone who wants to be able to carry groceries home. Or maybe, just maybe, you're seeing someone who just wants an ebike.
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Old 07-01-16, 05:45 PM
  #241  
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Originally Posted by BigAura View Post
Whatever.

My point is it's sad that these motorized contraptions are legally called bicycles.
Why? You keep repeating that it's sad or that it upsets you but what difference does it make if someone rides one of these bikes. Is it worse than driving a 4,000lb vehicle?

Have a beer, relax and don't worry so much about what other people do.
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Old 07-01-16, 06:13 PM
  #242  
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Originally Posted by BigAura View Post
Whatever.

My point is it's sad that these motorized contraptions are legally called bicycles.

$11,000:
100% correct. But that is not the type of E-Assist bicycle that I/we used, to make my/our tour happen with my wife. I/We used European legal E-Assist bicycles... Where, I/we had to pedal /did pedal 70% of all the Km we did... THERE IS A DIFFERENCE...
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Old 07-01-16, 06:36 PM
  #243  
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Here's a thought for/@ BigAura.. High powered E-Bikes seem to be problematic for you, as they they are for me too... BUT, Is it acceptable for 350 Watt or less assist with no throttle, and must be pedalled to go anywhere, and the assist cuts out at 20 MPH, to be considered worthy enough to be used where bicycles CAN be used? If you think about this carefully, I suspect/hope you realize, that there IS an in-between there somewhere... And not that E-Assist is a total fail, but overpowered E-Assist is a fail because it is basically a moped masquerading as a bicycle... Oh' and if your definition is zero assistance, for any reason. Case closed...

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Old 07-01-16, 08:13 PM
  #244  
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A myriad of thoughtful human beings enjoying their lives, not worrying about what others are doing with theirs.
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Old 07-01-16, 10:01 PM
  #245  
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Originally Posted by BigAura View Post
Few if any people are buying these eBikes to replace their cars.
I live completely car-free. This has been made possible by a combination of my e-bike for commuting, and some errands, and conventional bikes for other uses.

Originally Posted by BigAura View Post
Sorry I've seen ZERO reports and/posts from disabled persons as to how they use eBikes.
Clearly you haven't even bothered to read my posts in this very thread. I have already stated issues related to my disability and some of the ways that Cerebral Palsy has impacted my life. Further, I have mentioned that I use my e-bike extensively for commuting, and some errands.

I understand, that for some, cycling is an expression of machismo. For me, and my disabled wife who also lives car-free, they provide transportation and pleasure.

I have already posted these things in this thread. Frankly, your rages has led you to the sin of falsehood. Frankly, your posts are filled with hate and lies. You insult people on this forum with the claim that we are somehow "not worthy."

We have already conceded that you are the most macho person here. Undoubtedly you have the biggest p****. The name you have chosen for yourself makes it clear that you are The Big Man. We give you all that credit.

What we will not do, as you can see, is change our ways because of your rage. I will not start driving a car because you say I am not worthy of bicycling. I will even be courteous to fellow cyclists, even when they are on e-bikes (and I saw one on the MUP today).I will also not take upon myself the presumption of knowledge, which is nothing but hubris, and waste my time judging others to determine their "worthiness."

I will also continue with my solar assisted touring trike project. I have a trip planned that is simply more than I can ride without pain, not exhaustion, pain; when you grow up you will know the difference. Why not ride a motorcycle? I have had motorcycles and I can tell you that it is a different experience. I am glad that I had those motor-vehicles; but that is not what I want at this point. Possibly in your world I am not worthy of touring. Frankly, I have a low opinion of the persona you are presenting here too.

Here are some other pictures of an e-bike:

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Old 07-01-16, 10:08 PM
  #246  
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Originally Posted by Robert C View Post
I live completely car-free. This has been made possible by a combination of my e-bike for commuting, and some errands, and conventional bikes for other uses.
On everything you said. Bravo!
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Old 07-01-16, 10:57 PM
  #247  
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Originally Posted by BigAura View Post
@350htrr @jefnvk

Ok, I get it! You guys prefer the stealth mode that hides the fact that you "need" assistance to keep-up with with the girls & guys at bicycle events and on bicycle trails. 250W is what you need to keep it up with them. So for this little "stealthy pop" you are adamant that the world redefine the bicycle as a motorized-vehicle. Really?
I'm not sure if you are being deliberately argumentative, or just trying to be a giant Gentleman's Sauasage, as a particular British motoring trio would put it.

If we want to get into machismo, once again my regular bike is a nearly 35#, 38 year old Schwinn, with friggin' steel rims I ride in the rain. Look at my sig line for the rest, not a single one of which is as appealing to most as even a simple Trek hybrid would be. My favorite (and main) was made 8 years before I was born (every road bike I own was built before I was born), cost me $27, weighs double what half the crap in Performance Bike weighs, and has less than half the gears to keep up. Plus, the shifters are on the stem, making it less easy to use and therefore more manly, something I doubt your very likely brifter bike can claim. Toss even a 35% motor assist on the thing, and I am still giving up time to someone that has the cash to go out and buy a CF weight weenie bike. Hell, it probably weighs what a light ebike weighs without a lick of assist, other than when I am coming down hills.

Some of us, however, learned to go out and enjoy life, and if someone else is living it differently, not to care too much. Except, of course, when that person goes round bashing on others about how they are doing it wrong.

Originally Posted by Robert C View Post
I understand, that for some, cycling is an expression of machismo. For me, and my disabled wife who also lives car-free, they provide transportation and pleasure.
Some of us understand that not everyone is in a pissing contest with one another, and will gladly have a beer (or wine or cocktail, as we are non-judgmental) with you to chat about travels if we met you on a tour

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Old 07-02-16, 05:48 AM
  #248  
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Old 07-02-16, 08:41 AM
  #249  
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Originally Posted by Robert C View Post
This person is touring? @BigAura, I am with you 100%, as I'm sure many here are, but are too afraid of being beaten down by the leg-assist crowd.
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Old 07-02-16, 09:24 AM
  #250  
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Originally Posted by Robert C View Post
I live completely car-free. This has been made possible by a combination of my e-bike for commuting, and some errands, and conventional bikes for other uses.
That's great!!!!
Last time I checked there is an Electric Bike forum.
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