Just a guess but I think the numbers after P represent the volume. That is 36 liters and 45 liters per pair?

Of course Ortliebs are great products. They are a legend in their own time for good reason; they are great bags. But the general consensus for me is that the rigid mounting systems like the one Ortlieb uses, is more prone to issues in the rough stuff than some others are. It's not just Ortlieb that uses that system, other good manufacturers do as well. For me, I'm going with a mount that is less prone to issues. It's really just a s simple as that. I've found a good bag with a more durable and trouble-free mounting system, so that's the one I'm getting. If the Axiom bags had that other mounting system, I'd be giving those a go, but since they don't, I won't. Arkel t is.

Having spent two weeks dripping wet in Ireland, I can testify that the only thing that wasn't wet was the inside of my Ortliebs. However, if you are carrying some beverage in there and it somehow comes open, none of it it getting out either

you win some you loose some

Reviving an old thread but how are your Arkels working out for you? They make phenomenal products and I own a few myself. When push came to shove though, I ended up with the Axioms over the Arkels based on the mounting system being trouble free IMPO. I run them on an Axiom Disc rack and they work flawlessly.

Anything to say about Nashbar panniers? They are inexpensive.
And the Arkel Dry-lites are inexpensive and very light weight.

Nashbar gets things rebranded, they don't make any.

their mounting scheme is primitive.

The bags themselves are voluminous and waterproof (if you are talking about the waterproof variant). One thing I like about them better than the Ortlieb is they have loops to attach rear lights. That said, their mounting system leaves much to be desired. It was the sole reason I switched to Ortliebs when I found a good deal.

If someone wanted a reasonable option cheap and now, I wouldn't have a problem recommending the Nashbars. $55-60ish on a percentage off sale can't really be beat.

The rear ones, I had no problem with. The front ones came lose on any bump. I partially secured them for 500 miles with 5-50 cord til I got fed up and tossed them, (hiking trail and bouncing panniers ain't fun). You need some sort of notch on the bottom rail of the front rack for them to work better.

We both have the Arkel dry lites. They're really waterproof and hold a lot. More space than we need. Arkel customer service was great too. They replaced my boyfriends panniers after they were destroyed when he was hit by a car in February. They asked for photos of them and the police report (to see he wasn't at fault) and they were in the mail by weeks end.

Most are taped after being sewn, some use a heat fuse after sewing.

I went with Arkel Dolphin panniers over the Orcas. I wanted storage outside the main compartment for wet clothes or wet tent fly. Regardless of what you end up with, get backpack liners for the panniers and you will stay dry.

That's awful generous of Arkel, but shouldn't the car driver's insurance have paid for all the damages? (and hope your BF faired OK in the accident, of course)

I like the video. It looks nice.

BUT: For tried-and-true --> simplicity, durability, PLUS super attachment system --> I'd STILL go with Ortlieb (roller+ series).

it looks to me like the tourist is in some kind of race. even the bass player was having a hard time keeping up.

+1 Generic stuff true, BUT IT'S OK especially when you find a great-sale-type-deal and it's what you can afford.

Can vary wildly based on state law, how much of a dick the insurance company wants to be fighting it, and of course whether or not the car driver is actually insured.

that was a funny line.

the soundtrack to most of my touring would be that elephant march classical music or whatever it is, ie sloooow

you know, I have used Ortlieb for decades now, and for someone who has multiple bikes with diff racks, the good old hook and bungee system is certainly easier for going from one bike to another.
Ive never used Arkel ones with thier locking system, but it looks like it would work well. That said, I love the ortlieb close/system, pretty much ensures your panniers wont pop off a rack with a good whack.

A few months ago I hit a pothole so hard it ended up slightly denting my rim, and it managed to pop both my rear ortliebs plastic hook thingee off my rack, the lower thing, but the tops stayed on properly.

Arkel stuff is generally really well made, Im not familiar with the weights of those models, but have seen them in stores and they seem very tough.

Her insurance was expired. My health insurance covered most of my hospital bill, which exceeded $335,000 for the 2+ weeks I was there. I have a lawyer and we're working with her family to have the rest of the hospital bill covered. She's 84 and pretty senile (according to them) so therefore why we're working with her family. We're not too worried about the material side of things. Fuji replaced my bike at no cost and Arkel replaced my panniers so I'm only out a few hundred (if that) for material items.
[MENTION=406915]jefnvk[/MENTION] Tagging you since you replied to his comment and I didn't see it until afterwards.

[MENTION=425650]Ty0604[/MENTION]

How's that Fuji Jari working out with the 1x drivetrain?

I actually have the 1.7 model with the 2x drivechain. It's a Shimano Tiagra I believe it's called. The 1.1 & 1.5 models of the 2017 Jari are 1x drivechain while the 1.3 & 1.7 models are 2x.

The bike is great though. I love it. I ditched the flared handlebars. My OCD couldn't stand how they looked. Stupid reason but whatever. I also added interrupters and made some other minor changes to the bike.

I've spoken with Americans for decades about your health system, but I tell ya, Canadians and people from nearly all other first world developed nations with national health systems read of situations like this and we just shake our heads.
It's really quite sad how someone's financial life, having to sell your house sort of stuff, can be a possibility due to a serious bad luck health or accident situation.
We just do not understand it.
Sorry to bring this aspect of this up, is just always so shocking to us to read of the stress and complications that the financial side of your insurance based system can bring into the lives of people.

Just out of curiosity, I believe in the past you mentioned you were in some manner a sponsored athlete, was the gear replaced as part of that deal, or just out of the generosity of Fuji and Arkel's heart? If the latter, both should be considered stand up companies.

Ahh.. didn't know you two were related. Sorry to read about your accident Ty, but hope you are feeling better.