afrowheels

One of the pannier hooks on one of my (3 month old...) Ortlieb back-roller classics snapped the other day when I hit a bump. Tried superglue and cable ties but it snapped again (unsurprisingly given the weight and force involved). Will continue for now with cable ties but since this must have happened to others I was wondering if anyone had found a better solution using commonly-available items?

So far the regional Ortlieb distributor has not replied to my emails. Fairly unimpressed by equipment failure so soon and then failing to honour the warranty.

elcruxio

I've only ever broken the hooks on the Ortlieb QL1 system when I overtightened the adjusting nuts. The bags in question were only a few months old. The QL2.1 so far has been bombproof over years and years.

But the clips are glass fiber reinforced plastic so you can't really glue them. But replacements aren't expensive and should be pretty readily available.

afrowheels

Yeah I was pretty surprised that it snapped - it is the QL2.1.

Unfortunately the South American distributor I bought from in Colombia (Ochomiles) do not appear to ship to Ecuador, neither does the USA distributor and there are no Ortlieb distributors here. So widely available online but very difficult to get delivered where and when I need them.

Tourist in MSN

You did not say if it is upper or lower. I assume upper since you are having difficulty.

Upper hooks should not break. I have heard of lower hooks breaking in a crash. The larger diameter racks like the Tubus Tara also stress the stock lower hooks.

My upper hooks (over a decade old) have deformed a bit from weight in the bags and usage, but I can't figure out how that fiberglass reinforced hook could snap.

Can you provide a photo? (I am curious, I do not think I could provide any better advice if you did provide a photo.)

Does anyone make counterfeit Ortliebs, and if so might that be the issue here?

I put some plastic hose around the Tara to avoid chaffing, and that was too big for the stock Ortlieb lower hook. So, I made a different lower hook for my Ortlieb Frontloaders to use on my Tubus Tara out of aluminum bar.

Let me know if it was the lower, I will post a photo of the hook I made.

afrowheels

Yeah it's the upper one. Photo is not great but:



Snapped Ortlieb hook

I have actually lost a lower one as well so would be interested in your solution to that.

The Ortliebs looked very legit to me, documentation included. Ochomiles stocks top range stuff so I doubt they were fakes.

sapporoguy

Bummer. I had one break exactly there on a bump on an out-of-warranty Ortlieb. I tried to fix but ended up buying a replacement--not expensive here in U.S.
Have you tried phoning the distributor there? I've always found Ortlieb people to be very responsive here in the U.S. They've sent me free replacements on some stuff without even confirming if it was under warranty.
Also maybe try eBay and see if they will ship. Here's a listing for that lower hook.

Tourist in MSN

Photo of my home made lower Ortlieb hook below. Made it from 3/4 X 1/8 inch aluminum bar. Put two 90 degree bends into it. Slide some inner tube rubber over it so that the rubber contacts the rack, not metal. If I recall correctly, I had to experiment with a few different lengths of M5 screws and washers to get the right length of screw, too long and it could damage the fabric.

As noted above, I put some hose over the Tubus Tara tubing, thus the hook had to fit over a pretty big diameter rack which is why I made these alternative hooks.



Worked fine. But I doubt that something like that would work for the upper, as 1/8 inch thick aluminum would probably bend from the weight in your panniers on the bumps.

I am quite confident that I used a threadlocker on the threads to make sure that my hooks stay attached to the bag.

Photo below is cropped from the above so it is easier to see.

djb

you have mentioned in the past how much load weight you are carrying on your bike and while I dont recall the exact number, it was quite substantial, like about 100lbs right?
I see that you do not have those inserts in, or perhaps it fell out when it broke-- when you hopefully get a replacement kit, I would strongly suggest eliminating any play or looseness by doing as shown by using some hosing or even just wrapping a lot of tape around and around the rack to fatten it up.
I did the same thing before my Latin American trips, to eliminate all play so that the upper attachments sit very snugly onto the rack, reasoning that a million and one bounces with play would put a lot of bad forces into the mounting system--which is probably what has happened to you.
When I put my panniers on, I made it snug enough so that I need to manually close the part that normally the spring just closes on its own. It takes just one second, so not a big deal, but it took all the rattles out of the equation and so a lot less forces going into the mounts as they dont bounce up and down on the rack rail.
I also used wider tires at lower pressures than you, so that helped also, plus you are carrying a lot more weight than I ever did.

good luck getting replacement parts. Ortlieb does sell a kit, I have bought a set once for some broken panniers I bought used with a broken mount just like yours, but as you know, you'll be facing the postal challenges of the reality of where you are.

for now, I guess you will have to continue to improvise with multiple zipties.
If you have also lost a lower tab, I would suggest looking at how you've set up the contact point setup with your rack and panniers, but I suspect the weight is a factor also.
Any play or looseness just makes things worse, and regularly checking the tightness of things is crucial.

indyfabz

I started a long weekend tour not realizing I had lost lower hook of a front pannier some time earlier. I kept the pannier tight against the rack using a small bungee cord and the bottom. Worked well,

saddlesores

do your front panniers use the same mounting system?
if so, can you pull one from the front?

phughes

Try contacting https://www.campfirecycling.com they took over for The Touring Store when Wayne retired and sold the business. They have been very responsive to others who have needed Ortlieb warranty help.

79pmooney

Ortleib is an easy company to deal with. Any shop can get parts from them quickly and easily. (Might be through QBP but I do not know that.) Or you could call Ortleib directly. Number is on their website. I called them the other day to tell them of the scam (Ortleibsale.com) I learned of here. Quickly got a representative who knew all about it. We had a fun conversation.

Call 'em up and tell them that so-and-so isn't representing them well. My bet - they tell you they'll get on that fast and in the meantime, send you what you need.

Edit: Just saw South America. OK, not quite so easy. I'd go to their website and look for an Email address

And just an idea - maybe there is a local bike shop that might want to carry Ortleib. I bet Ortleib would be interested in hearing from them.. Little story - I moved to Portland, OR 25 years ago and quickly realized I needed new commuter panniers because my old ones were falling apart. Also I wanted yellow panniers simply because I was feeling like my time risking not being seen at night was running out. Learned of the Ortleibs; their quality and waterproofing. But they only had dark colors. I kept bugging the several shops I was going to about yellow panniers every time I went in. One day, the coop manager said he'd heard that a Seattle shop had asked Ortleib to do a custom run using their yellow raft fabric. I asked the manager to look into this; that if if he could get any, I'd buy the first and take tit to all the shops I went to and show them off. He did. I did, Yellow Ortleib panniers are everywhere here now.

Tourist in MSN

Thank you.



Same panniers, different bike:

afrowheels

Ah, not just me then. I got a reply from the Colombian distributor who said it would be too expensive to send a replacement to Ecuador...Not very impressed by that since they are neighbouring countries and the pannier is well within warranty. He copied someone at Ortlieb who has not replied.

Yeah I think a bungee cord wrapped around might help. Though I also think that my use of bungee cords may have created some problems: when the bike hits a big bump or obstacle the bungee cord seems to exacerbate the force. Snapped a (minor) part of one of my racks that way... So in some cases simple rope/cord might be better.

I don't think it's exactly the same but good point: I'll check.

Thanks I'll take a look.

Yeah the problem is the South American country without an Ortlieb distributor and I'm on the move now so not stopping anywhere for more than a few days.

Nice story: really like the yellow Ortliebs, have four in that colour myself (handlebar bag, backrollers and rather faded secondhand duffle)

afrowheels

Thanks. I may not be able to rig up something quite that good but gives me some ideas and there are generally a few hardware stores in these parts that could assist.

saddlesores

you may wind up having to maguyver a fix.
any large hardware stores in the city?
look for some heavy duty metal J-hooks.
Any repair shop can drill one and one of your panniers to bolt on a permanent mounting hook.
rubber gasket and/or silocone sealant will (mostly) retain the waterproofness.
you'll only have the locking mechanism on one hook, but that can be worked around also.

https://s.alicdn.com/@sc04/kf/UTB8a7...pg_960x960.jpg

Tourist in MSN

If you try what Saddlesores suggests, a J hook, not sure how you would attach it to the pannier. My panniers are over a decade old, they use a M5 bolt to hold the hooks to the pannier rail. If yours use the same or similar hardware, an M5 bolt might be sufficient.

A huge number of panniers that had J hooks have been sold that only used bungee cords to pull the pannier downwards to keep the pannier from jumping upwards when you hit a bump, if the bungee can hold it down well enough, the pannier stays on the rack. But, the J hooks need to be strong enough to hold the weight in the pannier when you hit bumps and also the extra strength needed to stretch the bungee cord.

saddlesores

will need to see what kind of backing is incorporated into the ortliebs - how is the current mounting bar attached? old-fangled panniers often had a heavy plastic back panel to mount hangers and provide support against seatstays. back panel was drilled and J-hooks attached with short bolts or rivets. i would guess ortliebs would be similar.

he should be able to slip a thin steel J-hook underneath the current mounting bar, drill suitable holes in the back plate, and bolt on. if ortlieb mounts are bolted, not riveted, might be able to use the existing bolt holes, drilling the J-hook to fit. that would be the best option, then upon return could get OEM repair parts to return to original configuration.

use a bit of rubber gasket or silicone for waterproofness, add a metal mending plate on the inside to keep the botsheads from pulling thru the backplate. J-hooks come in a variety of sizes. should be able to find one (or make one) to match the spacing from pannier to rack.

if nothing suitable can be found in hardware stores or agricultural or plumbing/electrical shops, any repair place or machine shop or muffler shop can fabricate a simple hook. this should be an "super easy, barely an inconvenience" task for guys that spend their lives fixing stuff for a living. might take an hour, will likely cost a couple bucks, or just buy the dude a six pack.

another option...........buy the cheapest panniers he can find in a local bike shop and transfer the mounting system.

phughes

After looking at the mount on my Ortliebs, I think you could get a metal hook from a hardware store and make it work. There are many different kinds of hooks, so you need to find a hardware store and look. If you can find one that will slip behind the plastic mount that runs across the bag, the part the original clip is attached to, that would be ideal I thought about using the original screw and remaining part of the hook to mount something, but that may mangle the mount so I wouldn't try that. What I would do is use heavy zip ties to mount a metal hook. You could slip some hose over the hook to reduce vibration as well, and to protect the rack finish, or heat shrink tubing.

This may be a better option. You probably won't be able to fit it under the mount on the bag, but you could zip tie it to the mount fairly easily. It would probably secure the bag better than a simple hook, and would still be fairly easy to remove the bag.

Calsun

In 1970 when I started touring it was very much a do-it-yourself matter and a friend sewed together a front handlebar bag and I made a mounting bracket and used U.S. Army surplus shoulder bags as panniers at the rear. The shoulder bags were the perfect size and had an outside pocket at the end so small items were easy to get to quickly. Half a century later the pannier designs still leave a lot to be desired in many respects. The least bad now are the ones from Brooks.

afrowheels

Realised I hadn't replied to this.

Yes, heavily loaded: 50kg+.

The picture doesn't have the insert in because I didn't want that superglued in. But actually the insert I had in that hook had slipped out when the break happened. Unless that happens I do have them in.

Zipties are saving my bacon at the moment. With the pannier I superglued the hook again but then have two zipties threaded through the plastic bracket, on either side of the hook. The hassle then is that either I can't take the pannier off the bike or I have to cut the zipties and set it all up again. (Right now mostly choosing the first option).

The Colombian Ortlieb distributor referred me to the head office, which referred me back to them: pretty useless.

Will be looking into some of the DIY suggestions once I arrive in the next big city and have some time.

Also using zipties to keep my mudguards from rubbing tyres because they've become deformed and lost some parts. And starting to have gear issues as well but that's another story!

djb

I realize that I didnt properly describe my setup-- I am not using the inserts at all, fattening up the rails so that the clips fit snugly onto them, specifically because I didnt want to deal with losing an insert and to nearly completely eliminate any play/clearance between the rail and mount. Like the other fellow, I used rubber hose tubing sliced and ziptied / taped on . It was fiddly getting it to the right thickness with trial and error, but once done properly, they have pretty much stayed on for years now, with occasional new tape going on top as old tape gets mushed a bit. I bought some hosing at a hardware store, they come in various diameters so I think had to return and get a different size as the first one was too thick. I used tiny zipties to hold them on, but over time the zipties moved, so tape worked.
I saw this tip years ago and seemed the best way to try to make life easier on the mounts. Any play or looseness is just going to put way more forces into the mounts with every bounce.

Tourist in MSN

I assume that is panniers and contents, water bottles, maybe a handlebar bag, but not the weight of the bike.

Good luck with that.

Thorn rates their expedition rear rack at 60kg if M6 bolts used to mount it, 40kg if M5 bolts are used. Since almost all rear racks are mounted to bike frames with M5 bolts, that pretty much means that the most you should ever put on a rear rack is 40kg on any bike, which likely includes yours.

I think Tubus Tara is one of the strongest front pannier racks, weight rating is 18kg.

When touring, I use one liter size water bottles, but on some of my bikes one bottle has to be smaller to fit. Three bottles adds up to 2.4 to 3kg.

My handlebar bag is usually in the 2.5 to 4kg range, which I suspect is unusually heavy, (I have an unusually large bag.)

My point is that at your luggage weight, you are probably not exceeding equipment capacities, but likely are approaching upper limits. If you hit bumps unusually hard, that could cause some breakage. The Thorn rack I cited above, on the website for that rack they also state "These figures should be halved when being used on South American Ripio etc."
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/carriers...ck-powdercoat/

My heavy touring bike (a Thorn Nomad Mk II) which uses M6 instead of M5 rack bolts is rated to carry 60kg of luggage.

If your rear rack is supported with stainless M5 bolts, you might consider high strength bolts instead so there is less chance to shear them off. Also, if you can install pan head bolts from the inside and then use nylock nuts to hold the rack, if you did shear off a rack bolt, you should be able to remove the bolt from the frame since the panhead is still part of the bolt that is stuck in the frame. Otherwise removing a busted rack bolt from the frame can be difficult. I said "if" you can install pan head bolts, as in the rear drive side dropout you might not be able to install a panhead bolt if the rack mounting point is too close to where the chain is when the chain is on the smallest sprocket, a bolt head there might interfere with shifting.

If however I mis-interpreted this and your bike is included in that 50kg, then disregard my comments above. That would put your luggage load much closer to what a lot of people carry.

CMAW 

Repairman in Thessaloniki, Greece, did this for me last year. I was sceptical at first but the "wooden leg" held out fine for weeks, even on rough off-road. I destroyed it myself, tired after a long day in the saddle, by snatching the pannier off the rack with zero finesse (a little bit was needed).

Tourist in MSN

If that was a Carradice, replacement hooks are available now that you broke your wooden one.
https://carradice.co.uk/shop/accessories/pannier-hooks/?v=7516fd43adaa
https://carradice.co.uk/product-category/accessories/page/2/