For a touring rig I'd take titanium or steel over carbon fiber or aluminum any day. Not because the those materials are inferior, but simply because those other frames use derailleur hangers and derailleur hangers haven't been standardized. Working in a shop I'm aware that there are currently over 20 pages of jobber hangers on the market intended to replace hangers that different manufacturers have stopped supporting over the years. I guess anything is available if you're willing to wait long enough and pay enough money - but most touring cyclists have at least a timeline to respect.

May pick up a titanium frame myself eventually just for the corrosion resistance. Not sure how to assign a price/value to that, but roadies seem to have no issues justifing Di2 systems for a lot more money - and those are guaranteed to last a fraction of the time a frame will.

I have a ti road bike and I adore it. But I wouldn't go ti for touring. You don't need the weight premium it offers over steel because you are carrying so much extra stuff, and steel will give you the same sort of a comfortable ride.

I'd rather have a custom steel frame with a ss. bottle opener and a mess of threaded attachment bosses.

Nice Link! I think I like this Van Nickolas Titanium!

I tour on a Litespeed Blue Ride that I found cheap on craigslist. It is lite, stiff and handles a 40 lb touring load easy. The frame soaks up road vibration very well, but so does wider tires. I love having no paint to scratch. It is gorgeous to look at. And, if I were looking for a touring specific rig no way would I pay what it cost new. I would go with an LHT for 1/4 the price.

I think it comes down to disposable income, someone like myself who makes under $20k a year would have a much harder time justifying a Ti frame than someone who makes $100k a year. If the cost of the frame will keep you from getting the components you want then I feel it is a bad idea, if you can still spec the Ti bike the way you want then I would say go for it, especially if you plan to ride the bike unloaded quite a bit as Ti is a fantastic material.

I'm from the school of getting what I want so I will never have that "if only" thought hanging out in the back of my mind.

After riding my first real MTB in 99 and deciding that I really love cycling I dreamt of a steel MTB hardtail with the best parts I can afford and I made it happen in 2001. 12 years later, I still ride it and have no desire to get a "better" MTB.

If you really enjoy whatever it is you wish to lavish a good sum of money on, the purchase price is quickly forgotten.

This is hardly a problem worth worrying about: just order a spare derailleur hanger before you leave and pack it with the rest of your tools and spare parts. For an extra $10-20 and an ounce or two of weight, it's cheap insurance...

Yeah - I did that recently for a customer that had an earlier model Cannondale. So far the wait's been 2 months. I guess thats hardly a problem - he can always go next year instead.

This is why I order a spare derailleur hanger when I order the frame it fits. I've yet to have a case where the frame and hanger didn't show up in the same week...

Thanks, the hanger discusson reminded me to pick up another hanger for my curent bike. I have an emergeny one that looks like it will fit many different bikes, but also might restrict gear options. Fine for a day trip, but not what I'd want to rely on on a long tour. I actually had a freak incident with a broken hockey stick in a patch of high grass ruin my day once so I know they do get broken. And on the GAP this weekend there were tons of sticks and debris from some storms just waiting to swing up and ruin somebody's day or or even week.

I've got a ti road bike (Merckx AX) and several steel road bikes, including a Bob Jackson World Tour. I absolutely love my ti Merckx for long recreational rides and supported tours. However, unless you have money to burn, I don't see the bang-for-the-buck in buying a ti touring frame. By the time you get your touring bike loaded, the weight savings from a ti frame would be negligible. The only real advantages of ti over steel are marginal weight savings, rust resistance and not having to worry about paint chipping. My ti bike only weighs about 1/2 lb less than comparably equipped steel bikes, so that's a non-issue. Rust is also a non-issue if you treat a steel bike with frame saver, clean it regularly and touch up an paint chips. Paint chipping is only an issue if you are rough on your bikes.

That is very close to my best arguement for buying something nice. I know all too well that in a year a few grand difference will be pretty much lost and forgotten in the constant flow of money that seems to be a part of my life right now. Yet I feel confident that I can buy a bike that I will still be apprecitating 10, 20, even 30 years from now.

My motivation for doing something is very important to me. I can't covince myself that a more expensive bike is all that much better. I can't say that I really need more than what will do the job. But I can recognize that my reality is all about continually taking in and continually pouring out. Life, time, energy, and even cold hard cash, it comes as fast as it goes. Here one day, gone the next, but always replaced by something else. If I want to I can dip into that flow and pull out something I will cherish. Or I can turn it into something else. But if I don't choose something, all that money (and time and energy and life experience) has a remarkable tendency of turning into unappreciated waste.

Go the custom build route in titanium or whatever other material you desire. You will then have a bike that is tailored to your exact specifications.

Moots and Seven are trusted names but currently think Firefly is offering some well thought out and beautifully executed rigs. The principals split off from Indy Fab when they had their move, and are quite experienced at titanium.

Would love to explore this option myself, but afraid the SO might, justifiably, pull a Bobbit if I did. Safer to enable another.

Stainless steel has recently been added to bike makers materials lists. Anyone have one?

Agree with you guys! If you very much enjoy touring (or whatever category of cycling it may be), there's nothing better than quenching the thirst of getting the bike of your dreams. I believe that it's better to satisfy this desire rather than going through a bunch of off-the-rack bikes every few years that are just plain average in every way. Then, trying to remedy all the shortcomings by dumping more money in a series of upgrades in a futile attempt to make the average bike work for you somehow, but never getting completely "there." To me the only way that one can achieve that dream is by carefully going through the process of having a frameset custom-built with the best materials one can afford, neat little features (braze-ons for this and that) and topped off with all the components and accessories of one's choice. A custom bike that's multipurpose always scores much higher (satisfaction-wise) and you'll get more use out of it. For instance, given how frame geometries overlap, a custom bike that will work well for touring, commuting and even randonneuring. If money is a constraint (it usually is!), do plan, save for as long as you need to in order to make it happen (or do it in phases.) Never do this if it entails neglecting your regular obligations or not leaving enough for other important things, like a planned tour.

I don't know how that works, but this process psychologically will satiate a part of your mind. If you were careful in envisioning your dream (touring) bicycle, most likely you won't be longing for another one, possibly for the rest of your life. It will be a unique, personalized and functional piece of equipment that was made just for you. That's difficult to match!

Well, yes and no.

I have this, but it's not a tourer and not at all recently-built.

The frame is Nervex-lugged Sandvik Stainless steel.

Or, you could just talk yourself out of something you don't need and offers diminishing returns.


I'm pretty sure if I dropped $4000 on a ti bike, and the frame broke or it got stolen, I'd remember that purchase price pretty quickly.

Plus I can do literally anything on my $1300 steel touring bike that I could do on the $4000 ti bike.

How so? I'm sure the graph on diminishing returns will see a line dropping much faster over time on a $1,300 bike than on a custom steel or Ti bike.

That's a risk we all take with our bikes. I'm sure you'll be equally upset whether it is $1,000 or $5,000 bike.

Different strokes for different folks! Sure, either bike can do the same things. Some people will be very much satisfied with the $1,300 touring bike and will never look back. Others will always see such off-the-rack bike as a compromise... yeah, it does the job fine but possibly that person never liked the color(s) the manufacturer chose for it; or s/he puts up with certain components but simply won't upgrade because, again, if "it ain't broke and does the job, don't fix it." Furthermore, a stock frame cannot easily or cost-effectively be upgraded to have certain features: custom material (e.g., rust-proof) and finish, little longer/shorter chainstay, a few more braze-ons or disc brakes, S&S couplers if one wants to travel around the world, etc. That person will undoubtedly prefer and will benefit from having a custom bike with everything s/he always dreamt of having. If that person can afford it and knows s/he will much happier that way, I'd say, go for it!

Maybe... I took a 10-year hiatus from bicycling. When I came back to the sport, I found that the expensive road bike I used to love wasn't nearly as nice as I had remembered. And when I compared it to a brand-new bike, I was surprised at just how much better the technology had gotten since I'd been away! I upgraded the drive-train components and rode the old bike for a few months, but eventually sold it and bought a more modern bike. The new bike is phenomenally good! But I doubt I'll be riding it 30, 20, or even 10 years from now...

Out of curiousity, what bike did you have before the 10-year hiatus? What modern bike did you buy as a replacement?

What technology in particular have you found so impressing? The thread is based around frame materials. I have myself a road bike thats 27 years old and a hybrid thats 18 years old as well as a much more recent Specialized Roubaix Ultegra and a completely custom built CF mtb for trail riding. Personally I've yet to find any newer components that can't be fitted to the older frames, but have deliberately avoided doing complete makeovers to them because I PREFER them the way they are and ... those older machines are the rides I spend the most time on.

As someone who also has only superficial knowledge about Ti, I find it hard to believe that the material has no advantages for touring; its resilience seems a rather obvious benefit. But never having broken a steel frame, the practical advantage might not be noticeable.

For the same amount of money, I could afford a custom steel frame. And fit trumps most other considerations for me. So I probably would not buy a titanium frame even if I could afford it. Unless, ofcourse, I won the lottery. Then the Italian builders from Tommassini would see my order for a custom Ti audax bike.

I can't speak for sstorkel, but since 2001, road bikes have added:

• Carbon fiber frames
• compact frames
• curved tubing
• the whole "endurance road bike" category
• aero wheels and frames
• compact double drivetrains
• electronic shifting

A top-of-the-line road frame from 2001 that cost $5200 (in 2012 dollars) is roughly equivalent to a $1400 road bike today.

That said, I personally would not have a problem riding a ten year old road bike, as long as it's in good shape, has STI/brifters, and I can easily get compatible parts.

And since my current bikes work just fine, I'm happy to wait 10 years to get a carbon-fiber endurance frame with electronic shifting for $1500.


I've also got an 80s era road bike with downtube shifters. Freewheels can be special ordered, but it's unclear for how long. The rims can only take wire-bead tires, which narrows tire choice. Raising and lowering the handlebars is a snap, but changing stem length would be a huge PITA. 7-speed STI is no longer available new.

For the costs and difficulties of upgrading to STI shifters, updating the drive train, and replacing the wheels, it made more sense to drop $1250 on a new road bike and make the 80s bike into my beater bike. Especially since that $1250 bike is as good as what the pros were using in 2001.