Intermittant Fasting 🍴
#76
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Anyhow, you're whole premise about increasing performance through fasting is wrong. There is no data that supports it, and frankly no top athletes have ever done it because it doesn't work. You might lose weight, but that doesn't mean much. Ride more and eat smarter if you want to lose fat weight. Everything you've written sounds straight from the vegan and/or cross fit evangelist handbook. Not to mention focusing on BF% is a very poor idea, and whatever method you are using to estimate it is probably wrong.
I've been doing that for years. Wouldn't consider 16 hours without eating to be fasting as that's fairly common for me. I never intended this pattern and it isn't intended for training or weight loss, it just evolved over time. I was never one to eat much first thing in the morning and over time I lost interest in lunch. Some days I'll have a scone or a doughnut if I encounter such snacks, other days I'll eat nothing until 8 pm or so.
#77
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I tried my first deliberate fasted ride Wednesday. 12-14 hours after previous meal. Cup of coffee, nothing else. Usually I'd expect to bonk but it went fine.
Rode 30 miles below my threshold, felt comfortable but slow. Actually averaged 15.4 mph, only a little slower than my usual 16-17 mph on that same route. And the weather was tougher than usual -- our first really warm day, nearly 90 and muggy, with 22 mph whipping wind. The wind helped with tailwind on two short steep downhills and one long gradual climb, but otherwise wasn't much of a factor since it was from the side and often shielded by terrain or trees.
I'm not sure it was completely within parameters for fasted. The coffee had about a tablespoon of whey protein powder, but it was cold, in the fridge and ready to go so I drank it. And my water bottles had powdered electrolytes -- I didn't realize until I read the labels they contain maltodextrin, although in a tiny amount and the makers claim 5 calories and 2 grams carbs. Probably not enough to matter.
I carried a couple of gels but didn't need them. It was a surprise to discover I didn't bonk. In the past that's been a problem, although unpredictable. I suspect it had to do with inadequate rest. Before Wednesday's ride I got plenty of sleep and waited until afternoon. I'd planned to ride that morning after fasting only 8 hours and skipping breakfast, but felt so achy I took some ibuprofen and waited (I always get aching joints before t-storm fronts move in as the barometric pressure drops). So I went longer without eating than I'd planned, but actually felt better and more rested.
I'll try this again, maybe once a week or so. I'm curious to see whether it'll pare down those last few pounds of fat around my midsection. Might as well give it a try now since this is the closest I've been to my optimal weight and fitness in 40 years.
Rode 30 miles below my threshold, felt comfortable but slow. Actually averaged 15.4 mph, only a little slower than my usual 16-17 mph on that same route. And the weather was tougher than usual -- our first really warm day, nearly 90 and muggy, with 22 mph whipping wind. The wind helped with tailwind on two short steep downhills and one long gradual climb, but otherwise wasn't much of a factor since it was from the side and often shielded by terrain or trees.
I'm not sure it was completely within parameters for fasted. The coffee had about a tablespoon of whey protein powder, but it was cold, in the fridge and ready to go so I drank it. And my water bottles had powdered electrolytes -- I didn't realize until I read the labels they contain maltodextrin, although in a tiny amount and the makers claim 5 calories and 2 grams carbs. Probably not enough to matter.
I carried a couple of gels but didn't need them. It was a surprise to discover I didn't bonk. In the past that's been a problem, although unpredictable. I suspect it had to do with inadequate rest. Before Wednesday's ride I got plenty of sleep and waited until afternoon. I'd planned to ride that morning after fasting only 8 hours and skipping breakfast, but felt so achy I took some ibuprofen and waited (I always get aching joints before t-storm fronts move in as the barometric pressure drops). So I went longer without eating than I'd planned, but actually felt better and more rested.
I'll try this again, maybe once a week or so. I'm curious to see whether it'll pare down those last few pounds of fat around my midsection. Might as well give it a try now since this is the closest I've been to my optimal weight and fitness in 40 years.
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My statement was not hyperbole. This:
Anyhow, have fun in the Cat 5s.
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That's just too bad...because exercise especially higher intensity anaerobic exercise burns a crap load of calories in a very short amount of time and is extremely effective for fat loss.
#80
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I tried my first deliberate fasted ride Wednesday. 12-14 hours after previous meal. Cup of coffee, nothing else. Usually I'd expect to bonk but it went fine.
Rode 30 miles below my threshold, felt comfortable but slow. Actually averaged 15.4 mph, only a little slower than my usual 16-17 mph on that same route. And the weather was tougher than usual -- our first really warm day, nearly 90 and muggy, with 22 mph whipping wind. The wind helped with tailwind on two short steep downhills and one long gradual climb, but otherwise wasn't much of a factor since it was from the side and often shielded by terrain or trees.
I'm not sure it was completely within parameters for fasted. The coffee had about a tablespoon of whey protein powder, but it was cold, in the fridge and ready to go so I drank it. And my water bottles had powdered electrolytes -- I didn't realize until I read the labels they contain maltodextrin, although in a tiny amount and the makers claim 5 calories and 2 grams carbs. Probably not enough to matter.
I carried a couple of gels but didn't need them. It was a surprise to discover I didn't bonk. In the past that's been a problem, although unpredictable. I suspect it had to do with inadequate rest. Before Wednesday's ride I got plenty of sleep and waited until afternoon. I'd planned to ride that morning after fasting only 8 hours and skipping breakfast, but felt so achy I took some ibuprofen and waited (I always get aching joints before t-storm fronts move in as the barometric pressure drops). So I went longer without eating than I'd planned, but actually felt better and more rested.
I'll try this again, maybe once a week or so. I'm curious to see whether it'll pare down those last few pounds of fat around my midsection. Might as well give it a try now since this is the closest I've been to my optimal weight and fitness in 40 years.
Rode 30 miles below my threshold, felt comfortable but slow. Actually averaged 15.4 mph, only a little slower than my usual 16-17 mph on that same route. And the weather was tougher than usual -- our first really warm day, nearly 90 and muggy, with 22 mph whipping wind. The wind helped with tailwind on two short steep downhills and one long gradual climb, but otherwise wasn't much of a factor since it was from the side and often shielded by terrain or trees.
I'm not sure it was completely within parameters for fasted. The coffee had about a tablespoon of whey protein powder, but it was cold, in the fridge and ready to go so I drank it. And my water bottles had powdered electrolytes -- I didn't realize until I read the labels they contain maltodextrin, although in a tiny amount and the makers claim 5 calories and 2 grams carbs. Probably not enough to matter.
I carried a couple of gels but didn't need them. It was a surprise to discover I didn't bonk. In the past that's been a problem, although unpredictable. I suspect it had to do with inadequate rest. Before Wednesday's ride I got plenty of sleep and waited until afternoon. I'd planned to ride that morning after fasting only 8 hours and skipping breakfast, but felt so achy I took some ibuprofen and waited (I always get aching joints before t-storm fronts move in as the barometric pressure drops). So I went longer without eating than I'd planned, but actually felt better and more rested.
I'll try this again, maybe once a week or so. I'm curious to see whether it'll pare down those last few pounds of fat around my midsection. Might as well give it a try now since this is the closest I've been to my optimal weight and fitness in 40 years.
On the other hand, their are the extremest, that believe you would have been considered breaking your fast. Simply put, if it triggers an insulin response, then the fast is over.
You can spend hours burning calories and gain it all back with a single meal. In some case, with a single serving. My point is, no matter how extreme your workout, you cannot out burn your palate.
#81
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Maybe this thread has been noticed elsewhere? In any case, Chris Carmichael just put up a new blog post:
https://trainright.com/why-intermitt...ance-athletes/
Basically he says that if that's the only way you can lose weight, and that's your top priority, fine. But don't mistake it for a performance enhancement technique. We've heard before about the performance enhancement technique Chris recommends: "Ride lots," which enhances fat oxidation just fine without sacrificing performance on that altar.
Why Intermittent Fasting Is Worthless for Endurance Athletes
Basically he says that if that's the only way you can lose weight, and that's your top priority, fine. But don't mistake it for a performance enhancement technique. We've heard before about the performance enhancement technique Chris recommends: "Ride lots," which enhances fat oxidation just fine without sacrificing performance on that altar.
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#82
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Maybe this thread has been noticed elsewhere? In any case, Chris Carmichael just put up a new blog post:https://trainright.com/why-intermitt...ance-athletes/
Basically he says that if that's the only way you can lose weight, and that's your top priority, fine. But don't mistake it for a performance enhancement technique. We've heard before about the performance enhancement technique Chris recommends: "Ride lots," which enhances fat oxidation just fine without sacrificing performance on that altar.
Basically he says that if that's the only way you can lose weight, and that's your top priority, fine. But don't mistake it for a performance enhancement technique. We've heard before about the performance enhancement technique Chris recommends: "Ride lots," which enhances fat oxidation just fine without sacrificing performance on that altar.
#83
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LOL. Didn't read it eh?
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#84
The Left Coast, USA
Maybe this thread has been noticed elsewhere? In any case, Chris Carmichael just put up a new blog post:https://trainright.com/why-intermitt...ance-athletes/
Basically he says that if that's the only way you can lose weight, and that's your top priority, fine. But don't mistake it for a performance enhancement technique. We've heard before about the performance enhancement technique Chris recommends: "Ride lots," which enhances fat oxidation just fine without sacrificing performance on that altar.
Basically he says that if that's the only way you can lose weight, and that's your top priority, fine. But don't mistake it for a performance enhancement technique. We've heard before about the performance enhancement technique Chris recommends: "Ride lots," which enhances fat oxidation just fine without sacrificing performance on that altar.
Last edited by FrenchFit; 05-06-18 at 12:07 AM.
#85
The Left Coast, USA
What ancient diet are your referring to? Ancient man was a meat and fish eater, and whatever berries, foraging stuff was in the neighborhood. Are your suggesting ancient man had a pizza before heading out for the hunt? Spaghetti party for the hunter team?
#86
The Left Coast, USA
But, that's like 5% of the fitness crowd, maybe. I think it is a whole different story for the weekend warrior and even the avid fitness guy, especially the older athletes. On a macro level I think their performance would actually improve by getting control of blood sugars, weight, fat storage utilization via fasting. Yeah, no regional stars will be coming out of that crowd, but training and nutrition for Joe average is a whole different thing than T & N for Michael Phelps. . .
#87
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Read it! Funny thing, it didn't change my original viewpoint. His article is true but only from a very narrow perspective. It also ignores all the many additional health benefits that go along with IF. In any event, I learned something new.
All true, but again only from a narrow perspective. Keep in mind that the goal of a competitive athlete is to win. That mindset often negates the focus towards overall long-term good health. There's a reason you don't see quinquagenarians winning the Tour de France.
But, that's like 5% of the fitness crowd, maybe. I think it is a whole different story for the weekend warrior and even the avid fitness guy, especially the older athletes. On a macro level I think their performance would actually improve by getting control of blood sugars, weight, fat storage utilization via fasting. Yeah, no regional stars will be coming out of that crowd, but training and nutrition for Joe average is a whole different thing than T & N for Michael Phelps. . .
My point exactly.
My sense is this is correct statement. I've only know a handful of real athletes in my life,...and I mean people who do two a days, constantly training and developing technique, striving for that competitive edge. My observation -- no way that could survive fasting, their performance would tank and tank fast and I suspect their health would suffer too. These people are calorie burning machines.
But, that's like 5% of the fitness crowd, maybe. I think it is a whole different story for the weekend warrior and even the avid fitness guy, especially the older athletes. On a macro level I think their performance would actually improve by getting control of blood sugars, weight, fat storage utilization via fasting. Yeah, no regional stars will be coming out of that crowd, but training and nutrition for Joe average is a whole different thing than T & N for Michael Phelps. . .
#88
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If you notice, I never said that carbs were the main diet staples way back in time, at least not until about the time humans started to practise farming... All I said was that humans were aware and knew about the benefits of eating carbs. Nobody can deny the energy boost and performance enhancement from eating starchy or sugary carbs. Ancient humans would seek out and eat starchy and sweet foods whenever they had an opportunity...
#89
The Left Coast, USA
If you notice, I never said that carbs were the main diet staples way back in time, at least not until about the time humans started to practise farming... All I said was that humans were aware and knew about the benefits of eating carbs. Nobody can deny the energy boost and performance enhancement from eating starchy or sugary carbs. Ancient humans would seek out and eat starchy and sweet foods whenever they had an opportunity...
#90
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This video popped up on my list today, and I thought it might be interesting to a few. In this interview, Joe and his guest talk about overweight people and the reason behind why some may have difficulty with losing weight. I personally don't believe that fat people can't lose weight, but what do you think?
They also discuss body fat vs body weight and the importance of hormones in regulating and balancing body weight. And of course, some brief connection with fasting and how it can affect all of this.
They also discuss body fat vs body weight and the importance of hormones in regulating and balancing body weight. And of course, some brief connection with fasting and how it can affect all of this.
#91
The Left Coast, USA
Smart video. So, who's the guest interviewee?
Oh, I got it: Peter Attia. Outstanding credentials.
Oh, I got it: Peter Attia. Outstanding credentials.
Last edited by FrenchFit; 05-07-18 at 03:43 PM.
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This video popped up on my list today, and I thought it might be interesting to a few. In this interview, Joe and his guest talk about overweight people and the reason behind why some may have difficulty with losing weight. I personally don't believe that fat people can't lose weight, but what do you think?
They also discuss body fat vs body weight and the importance of hormones in regulating and balancing body weight. And of course, some brief connection with fasting and how it can affect all of this.
Joe Rogan - Why Obese People Can't Lose Weight
They also discuss body fat vs body weight and the importance of hormones in regulating and balancing body weight. And of course, some brief connection with fasting and how it can affect all of this.
Joe Rogan - Why Obese People Can't Lose Weight
One of my female friends went around to her whole circle and confessed, Big Book style, that she knew she was addicted to food and that it was harming her life and had taken a vow to reform. She lost a little weight but now has gained back more than she lost. It's a tough fight, more like alcoholism than any thing else. And you don't have to be obese to have this problem. To some extent, it affects everyone. We all feel it. We all know someone who never buys cookies because they'll eat the whole package. The record fasting person referenced in the video essentially went to rehab. Took over a year. Wonder what he weighs now? The folks on the record loser TV shoe gained it all back after the show. Their problem had not been solved by diet.
I have a female friend who's been all over the place on the diet head-trip. Her solution was to view all food as fuel and nothing more. Cutting her emotional ties with food wound up getting her to Kona. It's a good plan: address the emotional and addictive problems first, then just eat a healthy diet, manipulating quantities to slowly change weight and/or body composition. The Mediterranean Diet keeps winning awards.
I had an overweight room mate in college who realized that fat people of college age aren't going to be dating. He thought about it and decided he'd rather reinforce his food addiction. Some choices are really hard to undo,.
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#93
The Left Coast, USA
LOL. Maybe you should do just a little bit of research on the credentials of the "presenter" who 'has it backwards'. Then you can tell us yours....
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There is more to life than simply increasing its speed. - Gandhi
#94
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Effect of Eucaloric High- and Low-Sucrose Diets With Identical Macronutrient Profile on Insulin Resistance and Vascular Risk Diabetes
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/h...ight-loss.html
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/602...5bb32389be.pdf
https://paleoleap.com/science-turnin...o-lipogenesis/
From that last link:
De novo Lipogenesis Doesn’t Cause Significant Weight or Fat Gain
In that second study above, the researchers used sophisticated metabolic techniques to measure exactly how much weight the women gained from fat vs. carbs. They found that the carb-overfed women stored about 282 grams of body fat per day, but only 4 grams of it came from de novo lipogenesis. De novo lipogenesis accounted for a measly 1.4% of their fat gain.
In that second study above, the researchers used sophisticated metabolic techniques to measure exactly how much weight the women gained from fat vs. carbs. They found that the carb-overfed women stored about 282 grams of body fat per day, but only 4 grams of it came from de novo lipogenesis. De novo lipogenesis accounted for a measly 1.4% of their fat gain.
People get on bandwagons about all sorts of stuff, the internet being a major contributor to this. Then it becomes for a while conventional wisdom, perhaps better known as bro science.
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#95
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The wackado interwebz presenter has an undergraduate degree in mechanical science, M.D. from Stanford, 6 year surgical residency at John Hopkins, surgical oncology fellow at the NCI, and maintains offices in New York and California. Not your average "bro".
So don't keep us in suspense, your credentials are...?
So don't keep us in suspense, your credentials are...?
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The wackado interwebz presenter has an undergraduate degree in mechanical science, M.D. from Stanford, 6 year surgical residency at John Hopkins, surgical oncology fellow at the NCI, and maintains offices in New York and California. Not your average "bro".
So don't keep us in suspense, your credentials are...?
So don't keep us in suspense, your credentials are...?
#97
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The wackado interwebz presenter has an undergraduate degree in mechanical science, M.D. from Stanford, 6 year surgical residency at John Hopkins, surgical oncology fellow at the NCI, and maintains offices in New York and California. Not your average "bro".
So don't keep us in suspense, your credentials are...?
So don't keep us in suspense, your credentials are...?
The Grain Belly guy is a decent example of this bro science. His book contains copious links to scientific studies. But if one were to look at those studies, one discovers that they prove the opposite of his book's thesis. The author counts on the laziness and ignorance of those who bought his book, a fair bet as it turns out.
One can educate one's self in many fields, simply by reading original research published in those fields. Of course one needs the education and vocabulary to make sense of what one reads, but one can get those things too, in the same way. There's a woman who was raised in an Idaho cabin, who was forbidden to go to school. Her mom taught her to read the Bible. And off she went. She's now a professor at Oxford. She educated herself.
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#98
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WTF is mechanical science? Don't you mean mechanical engineering? Attia is a hack. BTW my credentials are a PhD in Biochemical Engineering, and I'm currently a postdoc in an immunology lab studying CD8 t-cells in T1D. My background isn't strictly in human physiology/metabolism or exercise physiology but it is one of my areas of interest, and I like to think I have more than a passing knowledge of the major concepts. What are your credentials? How about you summarize Attia's findings in your own words so we can have a fruitful discussion?
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#99
The Left Coast, USA
It seems to me the Taubes / Attia "are hacks" crowd of critics mimic the 'Hillary child slavery' / 'govt. delivering chemicals through jet contrails' / 'deep state' attack dog style in their scientific commentary. Leave me out of it, both of these gentlemen do a fine job of representing themselves in the books & articles, TED talks, etc.
Personally, Attis' history as an open water endurance swimmer, boxer, marathon runner gives him more credibly in my eyes. He is very much a proof of concept guy, as I see it.
.
Personally, Attis' history as an open water endurance swimmer, boxer, marathon runner gives him more credibly in my eyes. He is very much a proof of concept guy, as I see it.
.
Last edited by FrenchFit; 05-08-18 at 03:55 PM.
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It seems to me the Taubes / Attia "are hacks" crowd of critics mimic the 'Hillary child slavery' / 'govt. delivering chemicals through jet contrails' / 'deep state' attack dog style in their scientific commentary. Leave me out of it, both of these gentlemen do a fine job of representing themselves in the books & articles, TED talks, etc.
.
.