How many watts to be competitive in Cat 4???
#226
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I reached Cat 2 on 3.9 W/kg FTP. The power you need at FTP to earn upgrade points is entirely dependent on where your strengths lie. If long climbs are your thing you need a lot of w/kg. If you have a decent sprint and the patience to be a wheel sucker, you can earn a lot of upgrade points on a low W/kg@ftp.
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I reached Cat 2 on 3.9 W/kg FTP. The power you need at FTP to earn upgrade points is entirely dependent on where your strengths lie. If long climbs are your thing you need a lot of w/kg. If you have a decent sprint and the patience to be a wheel sucker, you can earn a lot of upgrade points on a low W/kg@ftp.
Last edited by hack; 01-09-17 at 02:07 PM.
#230
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Cat 5 and Cat 4, i just rode around not doing any intervals. group rides yes, rode hard for KOM attempts sure, but nothing structured (didn't really know any better).
Cat 3 and onward, i had spoken to an e-friend of mine, who was a domestic pro in AUS and he set me up with some simple intervals that I did basically every week in conjuction with just more online trolling for research and workouts. That year it was about a 30w jump in 20min test, which i was super* motivated and in the same season i had decided to lose about 5-7 lbs extra. That was a game changer....
Cat2 and Cat1 power really didn't change much above cat 3, only noticed that I was able to rehe 330ish test level sooner in the season and other power duration benefited. Cat 2 was really motivated to get my upgrade, so i was doing 4-5 hour trainer weekend sessions here in MABRA while it was 15F outside, and imho was the perfect storm of others not training as much for early races. I got probably 25 of my 35 points within the first 4 race weekends, then in the summer everyone* was fast, so it too me a while to hunt the last of the points. In those same 4 race weekends as a Cat1, i probably amassed 5 points from placings. So i'm kinda 'lucky' it worked out for me when it did.
#231
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Cliffs notes:
Cat 5 and Cat 4, i just rode around not doing any intervals. group rides yes, rode hard for KOM attempts sure, but nothing structured (didn't really know any better).
Cat 3 and onward, i had spoken to an e-friend of mine, who was a domestic pro in AUS and he set me up with some simple intervals that I did basically every week in conjuction with just more online trolling for research and workouts. That year it was about a 30w jump in 20min test, which i was super* motivated and in the same season i had decided to lose about 5-7 lbs extra. That was a game changer....
Cat2 and Cat1 power really didn't change much above cat 3, only noticed that I was able to rehe 330ish test level sooner in the season and other power duration benefited. Cat 2 was really motivated to get my upgrade, so i was doing 4-5 hour trainer weekend sessions here in MABRA while it was 15F outside, and imho was the perfect storm of others not training as much for early races. I got probably 25 of my 35 points within the first 4 race weekends, then in the summer everyone* was fast, so it too me a while to hunt the last of the points. In those same 4 race weekends as a Cat1, i probably amassed 5 points from placings. So i'm kinda 'lucky' it worked out for me when it did.
Cat 5 and Cat 4, i just rode around not doing any intervals. group rides yes, rode hard for KOM attempts sure, but nothing structured (didn't really know any better).
Cat 3 and onward, i had spoken to an e-friend of mine, who was a domestic pro in AUS and he set me up with some simple intervals that I did basically every week in conjuction with just more online trolling for research and workouts. That year it was about a 30w jump in 20min test, which i was super* motivated and in the same season i had decided to lose about 5-7 lbs extra. That was a game changer....
Cat2 and Cat1 power really didn't change much above cat 3, only noticed that I was able to rehe 330ish test level sooner in the season and other power duration benefited. Cat 2 was really motivated to get my upgrade, so i was doing 4-5 hour trainer weekend sessions here in MABRA while it was 15F outside, and imho was the perfect storm of others not training as much for early races. I got probably 25 of my 35 points within the first 4 race weekends, then in the summer everyone* was fast, so it too me a while to hunt the last of the points. In those same 4 race weekends as a Cat1, i probably amassed 5 points from placings. So i'm kinda 'lucky' it worked out for me when it did.
#232
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https://www.strava.com/athletes/103480#interval?interval=201507&interval_type=week&chart_type=hours&year_offset=1
also generally speaking, i was doing probably one (1min to 5 min workout) 'vo2' zone, one (20m to 1hr workout) sweet spot workout, and either one (8min to 15min workout) threshold or 'sprint' (30 sec and under workout) each week. Basically 2-3 of those 4 things was my go to each week. While indoors, sometimes i'd do one of those workouts at the end of a 4.5 hour trainer ride. That's how 'motivated' i was during my cat 2 season.
i must also add in, which i believe to have helped, as i was finishing up my cat 4 season the said aussie , told me to do basically 3x3x3@130% and 2x20@100% each week , and i did them for like 2 months, and i think that helped setup the cat3 decently.
Last edited by jdms mvp; 01-12-17 at 07:37 AM.
#233
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Really the only intervals I've consistently done over the past few years have been 4 to 6 x 4' @110-125% depending on the day.
Cat 4 to 3 year I did 4' intervals, 20' intervals and 80" intervals but I don't think I was rested enough. Then last year I rode rested more but mostly just long rides with either 20' climbs or vo2 at the beginning. This year so far I'm trying to get hours in between the rain and figure out the new roads. But making sure to hit some unstructured vo2 during the week and long rides with threshold climbs on the weekend.
Maybe I just have to add a midweek threshold workout for a while.
Cat 4 to 3 year I did 4' intervals, 20' intervals and 80" intervals but I don't think I was rested enough. Then last year I rode rested more but mostly just long rides with either 20' climbs or vo2 at the beginning. This year so far I'm trying to get hours in between the rain and figure out the new roads. But making sure to hit some unstructured vo2 during the week and long rides with threshold climbs on the weekend.
Maybe I just have to add a midweek threshold workout for a while.
#234
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Really the only intervals I've consistently done over the past few years have been 4 to 6 x 4' @110-125% depending on the day.
Cat 4 to 3 year I did 4' intervals, 20' intervals and 80" intervals but I don't think I was rested enough. Then last year I rode rested more but mostly just long rides with either 20' climbs or vo2 at the beginning. This year so far I'm trying to get hours in between the rain and figure out the new roads. But making sure to hit some unstructured vo2 during the week and long rides with threshold climbs on the weekend.
Maybe I just have to add a midweek threshold workout for a while.
Cat 4 to 3 year I did 4' intervals, 20' intervals and 80" intervals but I don't think I was rested enough. Then last year I rode rested more but mostly just long rides with either 20' climbs or vo2 at the beginning. This year so far I'm trying to get hours in between the rain and figure out the new roads. But making sure to hit some unstructured vo2 during the week and long rides with threshold climbs on the weekend.
Maybe I just have to add a midweek threshold workout for a while.
#235
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fudgy gets away with like no rest but he also builds slowly and consistently over a long period of time and holds steady. I don't think there is any one blueprint that works for everyone. If you're finding that you're plateauing, changing your plan might just be what you need. The worst thing that happens is you decide in a month that the change isn't working for you, and then you go back to doing what you normally do.
there are many roads.
it's rained often enough that I actually decided to get on the trainer for a legit workout this morning, though I could have gone out and ridden on dry roads this afternoon. maybe I'll get a coach next.
#237
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Yeah, BIG difference between just finish cat-4 and winning. Here's a perspective from two different cat-4 racers. I lived with a teammate and we did mostly the same training rides, he was stronger than me on the flats, was faster on hillclimbs, absolutely demolished me on time-trials.
We started cat-4 at about the same time. I won my 1st two races surprisingly easily, my teammate was nowhere to be found at finishing sprint. My 3rd race, we figured i'm help him more by following him around and giving him lead-out to finish. Last lap, i come around to lead-out. Second-to-last corner i pick it up to get around first 2 guys so we can be first out of last corner. Look back and he's gone from behind my wheel to middle of the pack! I slow to help him get back on. We get out of last corner around 10th-15th and I realize it's too late, I gottta go. Still ended up with 2nd behind Joe White.
So moral of the story? It takes more than just watts to be 'competitive' in cat-4. My roommate who was clearly stronger than me never scored any points and did 2 more years of cat-4 and quit. I was racing 12P races by then and he was STILL kicking my ass on training rides.
We started cat-4 at about the same time. I won my 1st two races surprisingly easily, my teammate was nowhere to be found at finishing sprint. My 3rd race, we figured i'm help him more by following him around and giving him lead-out to finish. Last lap, i come around to lead-out. Second-to-last corner i pick it up to get around first 2 guys so we can be first out of last corner. Look back and he's gone from behind my wheel to middle of the pack! I slow to help him get back on. We get out of last corner around 10th-15th and I realize it's too late, I gottta go. Still ended up with 2nd behind Joe White.
So moral of the story? It takes more than just watts to be 'competitive' in cat-4. My roommate who was clearly stronger than me never scored any points and did 2 more years of cat-4 and quit. I was racing 12P races by then and he was STILL kicking my ass on training rides.
#239
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it's not a race on paper, but watts dont not help.
can u win a race on watts alone? to a degree probably
can u win a race on smarts alone? to a degree probably
can u win a race with watts and smarts? probably
can u low a race with watts and smarts? probably
can u win a race on watts alone? to a degree probably
can u win a race on smarts alone? to a degree probably
can u win a race with watts and smarts? probably
can u low a race with watts and smarts? probably