wphamilton

TBH I don't care about that, but I don't want them hating me right then. Plus they make me nervous back there.

FBinNY 

In 50+ years I've never run into that situation. Maybe because just about all my riding has been north of the Mason-Dixon line.

I have had drivers hesitate about passing, but it's not long before impatience overrides fear and they find an opportunity to pass. I will admit that when I see someone holding back, I'll do what I can to help, but only up to a limit. After that I'm not responsible for what folks do or don't do.

1989Pre 

Settled.

1989Pre 

Most of those people who hesitate a bit are just waiting for a lane to clear, or, as you say, their fear dissipates.

wphamilton

I get it 2 or 3 times a year. Not so much during a commute, because everyone's in a godawful hurry, but weekends and summer. It only takes about 20 seconds for me to go from "WTH is he doing" to "I'm removing from this situation". You're not responsible for what that driver is doing, but the 20 cars behind him don't know that.

noglider 

What do they know?

FBinNY 

I suppose it must be a regional culture thing. As I said folks up here aren't all that patient, and will finally pass when their patience runs out. In any case, nobody is accumulating a a bunch of cars behind because even if the lead car is hesitant, those following won't be, and within a short time frame will be leapfrogging past.

So, while my personal share the road philosophy requires that I try to make passing opportunities by moving toward the fog line, I don't feel guilty if folks don't take advantage of them.

Roadwanderer

No, I really don't think the OP did come here to ask for our help. The OP came here to accuse cyclists of endangering children's lives. It was subtle in the first post, which did also contain other legitimate discussion points (raising when and how it is safe for a bus to pass a bicycle on a country road).

Now, I understand people come on a little strong on the internet, and don't stop to assess how their posts sound to others reading them. I'm willing to have a reasonable discussion with the OP and assume they're not actually meaning to accuse cyclists of endangering children. I'm also willing to not assume they're just a troll, but rather that they're inexperienced with the culture of the forum (but I also recognize that, this being the internet, people will read that, assume she's accusing us of endangering children, get their dander up, and respond accordingly).

However, when one of our members suggest that the bus driver simply obey the traffic laws and pass the bicyclist in the proscribed manner that they would use to pass any other vehicle, the OP responded with:

To me, this is the proof the OP is a troll. This isn't a discussion with the OP, and the first post wasn't ill-considered hyperbole. It was intentional. The OP is here to say "if you don't agree with me, you're a child-endangerer."

That's how most people on the internet react to trolls. And yes, trolling is immature. So is troll-hunting. That's why a lot of forums give their mods instructions to moderate both behaviors (I actually don't know what the mod culture is like here, and if the mods are okay with this thread, that's fine by me).

However, I also agree with you and others that the best way to respond to this post is to react to it as if it were a legitimate initiation of a discussion of how bicycles and school buses interact on the road. That way, you get valuable discussion out of something that could have been disruptive. And a lot of people are going this route, so that's good.

rachel120

I am one of those people that when in a car never passes. Yeah, it's fear. Yeah, I don't want to screw up and get into a head-on collision. But it's also because even though I have been driving since I was 17 (yeah, late bloomer) I have yet to figure out how to make a car speed up really, really fast. Since I don't have a clue how to do that, I know I'm going to be very slow in passing and need a LOT more clear space than most people.

(And I know it's me and not the cars. My husband and I will test-drive one, I'll be in the driver's seat and I decide to see how fast I can accelerate. And it goes up so slowly despite me having the gas down. I'll say "Hon, I don't think this car has get up and go." He'll get in the driver's seat, get going and BAM! We are going from nothing to really fast quite suddenly.)

However, because it's an issue at my end, I'll stay back until I'm sure I can pass safely. Sorry for the folks behind me, but I'm #1 in my mind.

AlmostTrick

Wow, a half mile long string of cars is quite excessive. Maybe the OP can ask motorists to move aside, or better still, not drive their cars on his route, or at all. Won't somebody please think of the children?

work4bike

I've been commuting for ~30 years now and the old ladies that drive school buses are nasty women. I'm not saying this to be funny/cruel, it's just something I've noticed for a long time. I know...it's anecdotal based on my experience, so probably not fair to put them all in the same box, but just a funny little observation of mine for a long time.

I've had several encounters with school bus drivers where I wasn't on such a small road as what the OP describes, yet on more than one occasion I've had these old ladies (that otherwise you'd think were nice old ladies) open the door and yell at me, using language you'd expect from a juvenile. They actually (while driving along side me) have opened their loading door and yell obscenities at me

I have commented in the past (well before this thread was opened) that old lady school bus drivers are some of the worst on the road for cyclists. I've never noticed this from other school bus drivers. (BTW, I understand we don't know anything about the OP, for all we know the OP is simply a troll and has never driven a bus in their life).

noimagination

Like most cyclists, when it is reasonable and safe, I have no problem with pulling over to let a vehicle go by. I do it all the time, though sometimes drivers are too impatient to give me the opportunity.

Just weekend before last, while I was on a ride I had a bus (Access Ride, for disabled folks) approach me from behind. The road was too narrow for us to share the lane, and the sightlines did not allow the driver to see far enough ahead to pass in the opposite lane (hills and curves). The driver slowed to stay behind me. I waved to let them know that I knew they were there. I spotted a driveway, pulled into it, while I did the slow ride thing, the bus passed me with a 'beep beep'. I reentered the road behind the bus, each of us went on our merry way.

There was no necessity for me to stand by the side of the road. Like the vast majority of road users, the bus driver and I both understood the concept of "sharing the road". We were able to work out a solution on the fly that involved a little courtesy, patience and cooperation on both of our parts and took all of 45 seconds, max, out of our lives.

I feel sorry that the OP, who is charged with the safety of children, is, evidently, unable to do the same.

Shame on you, sir or madam.


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unterhausen

In most states, a slow moving vehicle or bicycle has to move over if there are more than 5 vehicles behind no matter how ridiculous the situation. Of course, this is pretty much observed in the breech. And pulling over has to be safe. On a bicycle, it doesn't really take that long if the right pull off presents itself. A driveway usually works. South Central Pennsylvania nearly drove me crazy on this front, you can cross double yellow lines to pass if it's safe. I did some long rides there this fall, and it happened too many times to count. Here in Pennsyltucky, this almost never happens.

If someone is tailgating me in my car, I find a safe place to pull over. I am not a junior deputy. The road that goes by my house has a real problem with crashes north of here, excessive speed it why. But I'm not going to try to stop it by myself.

Roadwanderer

As a rule, I try to yield to motor vehicles (except for that one time I made a school bus stop to yield to my right-of-way). My position is that they move faster than me and therefore will be out of my way faster than I would be out of their way. Plus, vehicles close behind me over long distances make me nervous. I'm primarily interested in my own safety, and I'm not (usually) going to compromise it just because I have the right-of-way. I tell my kids the same thing--it's no use being "in the right" if you're dead.

mtb_addict

Yes, I have always pull over if I'm slowing down commercial trucks and buses. I realize these type of vehicles can't accelerat like a regular car to pass you safely. I think it's the courtesy thing to do. They have too much mass to accelerate and decelerate. They always have the right of way.

jefnvk

FWIW, this morning a bus made three stops on a busy two lane pass-thru road, all less than 200 yards from one another, and from the last one sat and blocked the drive lane until the left turn lane for the corner they were practically at cleared enough for them to pull into it. I didn't see them bother to take the time to let anyone around them. I can easily argue that school buses cause far more congestion and frustration in how they operate than cyclists.

I haven't been riding 50+ years, haven't lived south of the Mason-Dixon line, and I have encountered it numerous times. When those stuck 15 cars back in line finally get around to passing you after being held up by said hesitant driver, it is not the driver they are yelling at. Even if you eventually get over to let said person go, there is a good chance someone in line is going to be PO'd enough to yell at you.

Roadwanderer

That makes me smile, and I wish we were able to "like" posts or give reputation points on this forum.

I'm a firm believer that potentially contentious, or outright dangerous situations could be averted by people simply being nice to one another.

Roadwanderer

I agree. While wearing my motorist hat, I've had maybe as many as three contentious or outright dangerous encounters with bicyclists. None of those encounters made me late or even took up more than half a minute of my time.

School buses, on the other hand, routinely make me later than I'd like (I can't say late because I usually leave early enough to account for traffic delays). On my grumpy days, I've been known to say that school buses should be banned from both high-traffic major thoroughfares and two-laned roads. Of course, I don't really mean it, because the rational part of my brain grudgingly acknowledges that this would be a completely impractical solution.

However, I would actually argue that the real cause of school bus delays are the commuters who, for reasons I can't comprehend, hang out in the left lane, but refuse to ever pass said school bus. It's not really the bus driver's fault that stopping traffic to load and unload children is part of their job. But a motorists' refusal to consider whether his or her elective actions are inconveniencing other people is something he or she has control over.

kevindsingleton 

Thread winner. Rule #5.

JoeyBike

It's for the best that I am late to this party.


The children are under your care and are your responsibility, not mine.
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noglider 

In New Jersey and New York, all traffic in both directions must stop while a school bus displays flashing lights and picks up or discharges passengers. Is that not the case in Florida?

Roadwanderer

That's the case everywhere.

I was referring to when the bus is moving (between stops) and not flashing its lights. People just hang out in the left lane, not passing the bus and causing more and more traffic to build behind the bus at each stop.

If you're not going to pass, you need to be in the right lane--behind the bus.

Leisesturm

Keep on a rockin' baby. If they are too timid to pass, tough. That's my rule. First of all, I FRAP, so if they aren't passing, its on them. Period. It's a school bus, not a semi-truck with a 3 bedroom ranch style modular home on a wide bed trailer with "Oversize Load" banners. Troll thread. Crafted carefully to make the weenies out themselves. Don't take the bait. Oh... you already have. Not sure if I can ever look you in the eyes again.

wphamilton

Like leading a parade right? Own it, ride with your arms up in the air leading the pack! Fun as that sounds, I just can't see me doing it.

I've never actually seen a school bus driver too timid to pass - more likely the other extreme - but I'm not ruling it out in this case. From what he said, he's afraid, so it's only logical.

no motor?

The most dangerous encounters I've had bicycling have been with school buses or parents in school zones. I tried and avoid them both when possible now.