I'm a commuter cyclist (and a hobbyist) and that means rain and improper clothes (not cycling clothes). I would really like to switch out my rims for new ones with internal brakes and internal gearing.

Is it reasonably possible to do this? My bike wasn't designed for internal gearing or hub brakes. I would assume a torque arm can solve the the problem of the hub braking action, but how about cables for both the brakes and the internally geared hub? I've seen internally geared hubs often have a brazed on cable guide near the back of the chain-stay, but I've never seen a hub brake fork (or rear) to know if they are supposed to have cable guides. Is it safe to assume this is easily remedied with an aftermarket hoseclamp type thing that would have a cable guide on it? Would it be possible to maintain a 1:1 to 1:4 ratio that I currently have with the existing setup (21 speed) albeit with less gears in between? I find I don't use a whole lot of the 21 gears. The whole 1st set is only used on steep hills where I go 1:1 and maybe occasionally I'll go 2 or 3 into those gears going up the hill. If I can keep something similar to what I have now, I'll probably be OK.

What are the pros and cons of hub brakes? Is the stopping power as good or better than cantilever brakes? I find I have almost no stopping power in wet conditions and discs are out of the question because of my forks and I really don't want to buy a whole new bike that isn't going to have the internally geared hub anyway or replace the forks (and I have a threaded headset). Besides, I hear discs aren't much better in the rain than the cantilever brakes, which is what I have now.

How much money does a internally geared hub (say 7 speed) with brakes cost (700C)? What is a reasonable expectation of the cost of swapping my existing rims and crank including the crank puller tool? Is $200 a reasonable expectation for the rims and hubs (assembled, I don't know how to build a rim)? If I need aftermarket stuff (like adapters to deal with the cables), what will that run me? Would I have to buy new brake levers? I assume you have to buy an indexed shifter for an internally geared hub?

Any help/advice would be appreciated.

ETA... I just googled and an internally geared hub is out of the question, way too much money. How about just the hub brake on the front rim? That would certainly help with the stopping.

You are on the right track. I just love my Sturmey Archer 90 mm drum hubs.

The front is the XL-FDD also with a dyno for lights. While not the most effective brake (90%?) , ONLY they will work the same in any weather, have NO adjustment except cable, and will last years and years. Mine has 15,000 miles including 4200 on a 130 lb tour bike. The sealed bearings are still as smooth as new. The pads are good for another 20,000 miles I guess. This hub will PAY for itself, comapred to any other brake's pads, discs and rims toasted. With the dyno is about $130 and without $70 or so. If your LBS has a spoke cutter you could maybe use the rim and spokes you have. The cable is easy to set up, with just a clamp-on. Long pull levers. It should work with any good steel fork.

The rear hub is more complicated, It is the 5w speed now discontinuted because of gimpy shifting. I just rehabbed mine. When rolling however it is the King of the hill for speed and efficency, No doubt. SA 5 and 3 spds have a 97% efficient direct drive middle gear that Shimano's may not. I put oil inside the hub which has gotten on the brake, not good. There is a new model out with all even step gears and a rotary shift like Shimanos. Sould be very good but the drum brake makes the spokes way too offset , like deraillers. IMO. I would get the disc. Only SA has spare little parts for sale.

PS ... You need dropout slots common on derailler bikes 1978 to 1995 or so or track ends. Most IGHs over 3 spd are now 135mm. Aluminum frame is not stretchable.

Hub brakes can be both drums, rollers and disc. Even band brakes and coasters for the rear.
For a certain amount of hand effort, discs gives the most braking. Drums are probably as close to fit-and-forget a bicycle brake will ever be. Stopping power for both drums and rollers are about equal or little less than decent rim brakes in the dry. But completely unaffected by weather.
Hub brakes do load the fork/frame differently than rim brakes. Usually not a problem, but no guarantees.

I have been using the Sturmey -Archer Drum brake hubs for 25+ years.

they come on smoothly , easily modulated, so the bike I have them on also has the Studded Tires
to use when the roads are, in part, iced over .

as to the How much does it cost, that is between You and your wheel building bike shop mechanic.

as you will hire someone to combine the elements into a Wheel .

For the IGH, I Highly recommend a 3 speed for Reliability .. you really dont shift gears as much as
change their function , so chipping gear teeth is Unlikely.

5 speed has 2 sizes of gears on the planetary that you switch between for 1,5 or 2,4 .


You need a frame with the fittings for disc brakes, drum brake hubs Don't.

To clear up any confusion, I mean coaster brakes that are lever activated, not disc, roller or wire brakes. My frame is chromoly steel. The rear dropouts are vertical (meaning if there were no nuts, you could lower the frame onto a wheel and are shaped like this: || The rear is really wide. The rim has the 7 speed cassette on one side and a bunch of spacers on the other side. I have a caliper, but it's away at the moment, but I can update later on how wide it is. Do I need the inner dimension?
As far as money goes, I was asking what is reasonable. I started to Google pre-made rims (I figured it would be cheaper than going to my LBS) and it seems the internally geared hubs are a pretty penny. Maybe used would be a better option.

So your bike is not really suitable for IGH at any price. If you want more than the front SA drum brake then you need a whole new bike. I think only heavyweight bikes have both SA hubs, Pashley and some Dutch bikes. $1500 ish. Linus has a several IGH hubs, but have caliper brakes. Some bikes have IGH coaster brakes. Roller brakes use grease which freezes and drags.
Most new IGH bikes now have pathetically low gearing.

There is no cable coaster brake. Anyway they can't work with chain tensioners.

I thought Sram had antirotation washers for vertical dropouts, for the G8 and G9 hub? I tried to look it up, but I could not find a good description in the catalog.

Sturmey Archer hubs includes a Drum Brake , freewheel and a Drum Brake/Cassette Option.

Sturmey Archer | Products

a 1 speed freewheel, a spring wound chain tensioner and a double or triple crank
offers a confound your Peers possibility.

Also would a Dual drive ..3 speed IGH + a Cassette on the driver end.

Discs are significantly better in the rain and snow than canti's. You can improve your braking by upgrading to Kool Stop salmon pads,using low-compression brake cable housing,and making sure that your brakes are properly set up(straddle wire and pad positioning are critical) and that your wheels are true. You could also upgrade to a V brake in the front with a Travel Agent and Kool Stop pads. These would be much more cost effective,and just plain effective,than trying to convert to a hub brake.

I suppose the standard frame comes in various disguises. Disc brakes are perhaps the most firm and precise brakes I've had, but I've never had more trouble with this type of brake either. It's a good brake, but it has certain weaknesess; the disk it's self are prone to take hits and dings, and bend out of shape; then needs replacing. Every now and then there is someone who manage to get oil and grime on the disk, it saturates the tiny brake pads, and they need to be replaced. The disk needs to come off for thorough cleaning (arghh...!!). It gets expensive, and it's not as easy a DIY job as the U-brakes on your racer.

I've had a few bikes with drum bakes and coaster brakes, and they work fine, very reliable and very low maintance. The are ideal for lots of type of bikes and frames; city bikes, commuter bikes, touring; I've seen them on Raleigh 20s, tweaked Dahons, etc. The are not ideal for racer bikes because of weight issues, and because the classic U-brake is very optimised for light speedy bikes, it's hard to beat it. For anyting else than racing hub brakes generally work fine though. There are no particular issues fitting the cables and handles needed for the brakes. I'm not sure for all types of drop outs for the rear wheel, I think there are ways about it though. All the brake types have their strengths and weaknesses, what I like about hub brakes are their reliability, last as long as the bike does, reduces wear on parts like rim and and wheels to a minimum, a pair of brake shoes last forever, almost literally.

I've been down for a few days.

As for the cable coaster brake, I know there is no such thing, I just knew everyone would know the type of internal brakes I was looking for, the ones with (IIRC) brass pads that operate similar to rear brakes on most cars.

I probably couldn't buy the bike I want and would probably have to build it from frame and forks. I am assuming the vertical dropouts are bad because you can't adjust the chain tension?
I probably would want to stick with a Chromoly frame/fork. My Chromoly bike is much lighter than the aluminum bikes in big-box stores, for example. Aluminum fatigues, steel doesn't. Steel can be bent, aluminum cannot safely be bent. Aluminum require thicker walls and larger tubes and I've been seeing 'triple butted' on LBS aluminum bikes (at fatigue prone areas) and worst of all, they are stiff as all hell. I am a large rider riding in a city with bad roads, I don't need a failure in heavy city traffic. (Philly)

Are V brakes any better? I would be willing to swap out the cantilever brakes and levers for V brakes. Thing is, I have great stopping power in dry conditions and if I constantly pump the brakes in the rain, they are slightly better (than not pumping them). I can live with external gears, but I really don't like being without stopping power in rain. When possible, I just jump on a bus (they all have bike racks) rather than risk my life. Oddly enough I've never been hit in the rain, only on a nice spring afternoon by some idiot trying to blow a light, but maybe that is because I am so conscious of it?

For the brakes, I think it is more about adjusting them correctly and getting a pair of good brake blocks. Brake blocks are a bit more fuzzy to adjust with cantilevers, but they should work even in rain. You might have to adjust them as they wear down, they should press on the center of the rim. I'm happy with the general Jagwire all weather compoud, they don't wear down too fast. Some swear by Kool Stop. It depends all on the rims you have too, if their' ceramic you need something else, it's worth testing different types.

You will have braking power with hub brakes, I promise! It' not only heavy weight Pashleys that have the drum brake, there's quite a few aluminium frame "classic" and city bikes. Sram and Sturmey Archer have drum brakes, Shimano have a type of hub roller brake for front and rear wheel, with handle bar levers. You can even double up with coaster brake and rim brake for extreme conditions, but for road traffic I would not go for rim brakes on the rear wheel. It's not necessary, and it adds a lot more cost and maintanance, the rim will wear down but the hub should last a very long time.

As I understand it, the closer you can get the pads to the rim the more mechanical advantage you will have and the more stopping power you have. I don't particularly like tight brakes though. I have them set so they engage the rim at about 1/3 of the lever travel and become spongy about 2/3rds. The front is slightly more tight for panic stops. My rims are aluminum.

My brakes feel very spongy like they should and I have them slightly toed, but I forget in which direction. I had them one way, RJ the Bike Guy told me they should be toed the other way and that made them squeal, so I put them back the 'wrong' (according to him) way. I have Kool-stop on the front and LBS pads who's name I don't recall on the back. I do most of my braking in the back, but I generally don't ride fast though I do hit some major downhills (I use more back on the down hill, but front as well). I am heavy when fully outfitted, probably 280 with my backpack, water, tools, and all kinds of junk plus 2 locks, a U lock and a cable lock. I also ride fairly upright, maybe slightly less than 45 degrees. I also have my seat back on the rails as far as it will go. It hurts my knees to be too far forwards.

My LBS doesn't carry those orange (Kool-Stop Salmon) pads that are supposedly good for rain. Does anyone know if they work as advertised? I really find most reviews on Amazon to be 'out of the box' and not after a decent period of usage. IIRC, it's $40 for these guys (20 per wheel). Money well spent if they work though.

I think the general advice is to use equal pressure on both front and back brakes and adjust them for this use. I know some debate this endlessly, but for brake power and the least wear on parts it is usually the strategy. I know some prefer the back brake since it can be a bit scary hitting the front brake too abruptly, but they are meant to work together. For majorly long and steep down hills and heavy load an extra brake can be a must, which always is a combination of hub and rim. The easiest would be the additional coaster brake, but it requires internal gear hubs. There used to be hub brake / derailleur combo, but I don't think it's made any more. I know a guy who fixed up a 1980s touring bike with this combination brake/gear. Carrying a heavy load you need to get the most reliable gear hub model if you decide to go for it. With the Kool Stop pads you already have good brake rubber, but if it's only in rain they tend to fail it's probably worth trying another type of rubber. I have been happy with Kool Stop, Jagwire and Swiss Stop, but I tend to by what I can get in stores here. I so wish they would carry Kool Stop locally. I had this covertion kit for fitting Magura brake pads for the (trial bike type) to regular Shimano V-brake. The brake compound was quite good, but down hill it made a noise like a heard of elefants. A while a go I when from run of the mill Shimano equipped bike to a bike with Magura brakes, and they felt like they were in a league of their own. There are probably room for a lot of improvement on the standard rim brake if you feel you need to keep them.

This is proper toe-in:


Canti's can be noisy,but what's important is how the brakes work. Proper toe-in will ensure maximum contact with the rim. The pads should also be lined up so that they go straight into the rim(parallel to the ground) with no angling.

I've used them in the past on a bike with V brakes and did get an improvement in the rain. Plenty of posters on here swear by them as well.