I have one of these stuck on a frame and am wondering if I'm using the correct tool which is an oversize wrench. I'm applying a lot of torque counter clockwise and it's not moving at all. Is there a better tool for the job?

Yes, there are a number of special tools from flat wrenches to tools that clamp to the cup and accept long cheater bars, but that's not your problem here.

Unless this is an Italian frame, odds greatly favor it having a left hand thread. Unscrew clockwise.

Yes indeed there is: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...best-tool.html



If the cups are English threaded (like the one in your pic) then the fixed cup is LH threaded, which means you turn it *clockwise* to unscrew.

There's one school of thought that unless you're replacing the BB (e.g., just regreasing), leave the fixed cup alone. There are many tricks and a few special tools designed to help remove it - I prefer putting the cup flats in a vise and using the frame to turn it. As others have said, it is usually a reverse thread.

- Mark

Where would I buy one? Can't seem to find it online, or maybe not looking in the right place on sheldon...

Click on the pic in my post, scroll down to where it says "Fixed-Cup Tools", then visit your local hardware or other store that sells fasteners to pick up the bolt, nut and washers described.

The OP doesn't say his tool is slipping, so he doesn't need a better tool. He just has to go about the job the right way.

Right cup = left thread ---------> unscrew CLOCKWISE

And it can be stuck on like you wouldn't believe. Last one I did, I had the bike upright, with the owner sitting on the rack and a cheater bar taller than myself. I had the rear wheel off the ground - but not his feet - before it finally broke free.
And there have been several stories here about people using the vise method turning/toppling work benches, or breaking them loose when fighting stubborn BBs.
One shop here, the mechs take pride in not having to ask for help with BBs. Their biggest bench isn't bolted down, so when something stubborn is encountered, the unlucky mech has to ask the rest of the staff to come and sit on the bench for extra ballast. And it costs the mech responsible for the bike a beer for each person he needs as ballast...

On the subject, has anyone ever managed to destroy a frame while removing a stuck BB?
Is it structurally possible to warp the frame before the threads strip?
Or will the tool flats/splines go first?

I reckon the thin flats on the fixed cup of a cup-and-cone BB would probably either fail or take a chunk out of the vice jaws before the frame failed, but if you managed to get a Shimano or similar cartridge BB seriously stuck (I'm thinking not enough grease, steel frame with aluminium BB retaining rings, or ally frame with steel BB cartridge, and a good length of time for galvanic corrosion to set in) and secured the tool into the splines with the crank bolt, at that point you could stick the tool in a decently-sized vice and haul on the front end of the frame until either the BB broke loose or the frame failed.

I've never been concerned about that, as it would probably be the sort of issue you'd see on a very lightweight bike (531c tubeset levels of lightweight) and I don't work on that level of machinery very much, although I've seen my share of stuck BBs. I did once get worried I was going to bend a frame sideways trying to break a stuck seatpost loose, but that had a lot more surface area to be stuck into and I was loading the frame out-of-plane.

Isn't this only true for English threaded? If it is Italian (and who knows about the other oddballs)...isn't it a right hand thread?

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...best-tool.html

I also like this method, but you need a big strong vise

also works great for other purposes such as freewheels

what's the frame you are working on?

There's a table of all the BB threadings on Sheldon Brown's website, but to summarise British and Raleigh fixed ups are left-hand threaded, Italian shells are right-hand, but then there are French and Swiss, which are the same thread dimensions but one has a left-hand threaded fixed cup and the other one has a right-hand threaded one, I can't remember which.

Auto Parts store or Industrial Hardware... Big Nut/bolt/4 split lock washers and a Fender washer ..

Traditional tool combines the fixed Cup , And a 15mm Pedal wrench Campag, Shimano, Zeus And Park All made one. its a foot or so Long.. 1/8" thick steel

https://www.parktool.com/product/cran...t-wrench-hcw-4 combined adjustable pin tool and Fixed cup wrench..

True, but I think we're all anticipating that even when turning in the right direction, common everyday hand tools (such as a big crescent wrench) often don't work very well in this application, so after he solves his first problem, he'll probably encounter the second.

- Mark

True, but the OP never mentioned his tool slipping even though he torques it to his physical limits.

OTOH- I guess I should be flattered by all the references to Sheldon Brown's tool idea, since I'm the one who originally invented and produced the tool who's principle SB copied for his method.

PARK HCW-4.



I'll use a combination of flat washers, BB tool (such as BBT-22 or similar) for splined cups and an 8mm bolt to hold the tool in place, using the spindle.
ONE GOOD WHACK with a 4 lb. hammer has always worked for me.

Have you applies any penetrating oil from the open side so that it can run down the threads and soak?
I usually lay the frame on its side, NDS up and apply a generous amount of PO a couple times a few hours/overnight before attempting removal.

Thank you for the info everyone! Very helpful, I have a few things I can try now. BTW this is the bike I'm working on:

Panasonic DX5000 with full Shimano 600 group and Tange#1 Tubing (Got it for $65



Some things I have encountered so far is that the right DT indexing shifter has a broken piece that had teeth of some sort. Is there a way to get replacement indexing shifter parts?
Somehow the front two sprockets? If that's the right word, are "tacoed." No idea how hard you would have to crash to tweak these into a noticeable oval shape, but it happened :/ This is what has me questioning the BB. The drive side crank arm itself seems to be fine, spindle as well, but a lot of play in the cups even when tension on the bearings are "dialed in." I have a Kawamura BB set of a Nishiki International that I was going to try as the threads fit.

First the easy part. The reason it's so difficult to imagine how the chainrings might have gotten squashed into an oval is that they weren't. They were made that way -- search Bio-Pace for more on that.

As for the BB. My first instinct is that you have the ball retainers backward, so the retainer is dragging and making proper adjustment impossible.

Mind blown... just visited Sheldons... that's insane, never would have thought that was by design... so I should put them back on? It seemed to make the front derailleur placement awkward. Are these valuable? I do like the anodized biopace, but it sounds like it makes you take on a certain cadence...
As far as the retainer and bearings orientation... the ball bearings should face outward in the race of the cup? And the retainer side facing inward towards the spindle race?

Yes, as I thought, you have the bearing retainer in backwards. The rib of the retainer nestles into the cup. You can confirm that by dropping it over the spindle and seeing that the rib hits the bearing area of the spindle.

Given your poblems so far, I expect you'll have more, and suggest you find a bike co-op or recruit a knowledgeable friend to help you with the rebuild.

Most of us don't use retainers with the bearings, but just loose balls.
Fresh grease holds them in place for assembly.
11 balls per side. Your retainers may hold less, so you may have a potential "upgrade".

BTW, I always use new bearing balls. To me it's not worth the hassle to clean, inspect and hope I didn't miss a flaw.

Many of those Shimano 600 6 speed shifters failed, mine included. I replaced it with seven speed from ebay and put a seven speed freewheel on. Nice upgrade.


I have BioPace and like it. Set the FD where it needs to be to clear.

I appreciate that very much, and yes I could use some help, I'm going to meet up with another member of the forums here in San Jose on Sat. He has been through a few stuck cups before, and has a few things to try n help. I don't mean to bug with so many questions, I just really like learning the hard way XD