RobbieTunes

Wish I could say the same about my Triumph Tiger 750. Switched the whole shebang to Wagner and never looked back.

bulldog1935

My buddy had a 100pt Tiger that lived in the kitchen, and the Smiths gauges worked.
Of course he also built the telescopes at McDonnell observatory.

Chombi

Peugeots were pretty much Raleigh's counterpart across the channel.......
I had to go through two dealer deliveries worth (6 months/at least 12 bikes!)
of PSV's before I found one with no brazing flaws and acceptable lug finish work.
Surprisingly, I did not have to do the same with my earlier bike, a lower model PH10S.
That one was close to flawless, the first one the dealer presented to me......but maybe, if the bike had lugs, it would have been a different story.

RobbieTunes

Considering I just picked up a 1959 Sports, as originally purchased but with newer (70's) tires, I may be about to, as they say, "step in it."

It has a dyno front hub, apparently added by the dealer, as the original owner told me it came that way. $75 in 1959. 3-sp Sturmey-Archer, which I've yet to tear down, Brooks B-66, head and tail lights on the dyno circuit. I think the wheels weigh more than most of my bikes. I don't plan to re-spoke the galvanizers, but it's a thought.

RobbieTunes

McDonald's has observatories?

bulldog1935

oh yeah, McDonnell

CuttersRidge

It's amazing that Heron bicycles seems to be inspired by Raleigh, I could be wrong but it sure appears that way and their history.

bulldog1935

that was a Heron I posted on my last on-topic post on the previous page. Grant Petersen designed and it's basically a better International.

If you go through Rivendell Blug posts, there are many good Raleigh references there.

Raleigh's last serious racing effort was Reg Harris, and throwing in Carlton, you can count through the 60s.
Raleighs were built to ride and built to be the best affordable lightweight lifestyle bicycle in the world.
I saw a news clip one day where John Major was riding his '77 Grand Prix just like mine, but stock and white Bluemel's fenders, to his job at 10 Downing Street - in the rain.
Remember, in the rest of the world, bicycles are transportation.
In America, they're kids' toys, as proved on this forum over and over.

A few weeks ago after a group ride, meet at my buddy's house, ride to meet the group, ride with the group, maybe ride for coffee and back to his house (9 ball tournament). He, his daughter and I were planning lunch, and jumped on our bikes to the nearest grocery store. It was hot, and the only shade was the shopping cart tunnel and I stayed there with the bikes. Employees came out of the store to look at the bikes - they were amazed people had ridden bicycles to buy groceries.

Trueblood

Ha, Lucas, the company motto - 'A hard day's work and home before dark!'

gaucho777 

The first 10-speed I ever threw my leg over was my dad's green Raleigh (probably a circa '79 Grand Prix or similar mid-range model as best as I can recall). It fit "okay" if you count riding on the top tube, though it made for a dangerous dismount. Thus, they do hold a bit of nostalgia for me. It's obviously an iconic manufacturer with a deep history, but it's hard to dispute the notion that their QC was laking on occasion. As nlerner says, they made a ton of different models over many years, so it's hard to generalize about Raleighs across the board though. While most Raleighs don't excite me much, I think they are handsome bikes overall. I'd love to have a SBDU team bike or an early Lenton or Carlton. I'm sure my wife would gladly ride one of their city bikes with a sprung saddle, chain case and large front basket, and would never, ever give any consideration to lug lines.

And as a fan of cycling in the 80s, it was fun to watch Phil Anderson race for Panasonic-Raleigh:


(photo source: PEZ Cycling)

Velognome 

Imagine, 40 years and it hadn't failed and was perfectly aligned.....These guys weren't frame builders, they were gods!

USAZorro

My Raleigh experience shows there definitely is some variability in attention to brazing - and other things. That said, you'd have to kill me to take mine, as some of them are the best-finished, and most enjoyable rides I have. Here are my data points - chronological by period of ownership:

1978 Super Course - got it when I started college. I didn't pay any attention to brazing quality back then, but I didn't notice any flaws. It was a great handling bike that I could ride fast and ride all day. Stolen in 1981.
1974 Superbe - was my uncle's. Sloppy brazing. Heavy. Ponderous.
1975 Grand Prix - not great finishing, but nothing glaringly wrong. It didn't ride like I remember the Super Course riding. Sold it on CL.
1978 Super Course - it didn't seem to have the magic of the original. Maybe it was me. There was a bit of sloppy brazing on it. Gifted to a rider in my cycling club.
1970 Raleigh Professional. The paint had long since been toast when I got it, but I had this sanded down to bare metal, and it was very carefully made. No globs, no sloppy filing, nicely thinned lugs, very well mitered bottom bracket. It has a very comfortable, relaxed feel on the road.
1976 Raleigh Team Professional. Paint was toast before it came to me too. Also had this down to bare metal. It was made even better than the 1970 Professional (of course I would expect this from SDBU). This bike is about as responsive as any steel bike ever (about equal to the 2000 Bob Jackson)
1974 Raleigh Competition. The overall finishing is less refined than on the Professional and Team Pro, but no glaring flaws. Haven't ridden it because the steerer threading was stripped at the top. Hoping to ride it by next year.
1974 Grand Sports. Sloppy brazing and a tiny void. The factory also neglected to stamp it with a serial number. The paint and chrome are still remarkably good though. The ride was pretty good on it's test journey, but I need to service the BB.
1949 Clubman. Nicely finished. Not yet built up.

Raleighs were ubiquitous. Icons. Schwinns get a nod over them for consistency of finish, durable paint and chrome, but I'd take a Raleigh any day over a Schwinn because of superior design for lightweights. I admit to never having ridden a top of the line Italian or French bicycle from the 70's, but setting aside personal preferences for styling, I can't imagine the Ilkeston machine comparing unfavorably against the very best.

If anyone has had enough of their 21-1/2" or 22-1/2" mid 70's International (preferably copper), drop me a line.

spock345

I probably would trade a nice super course or my competition for a sports tourer or superior. Just because those filet brazed schwinns are so nice looking. I have heard of no quality control issues with those bikes.

Velognome 

Nope, no control issues

USAZorro

The fact that a 1976 Competition weighed over 5 pounds less than a 1976 Superior, and had nice lugs must count for a lot more to me than to you.

spock345

I value resilience a little more than weight. To each their own.

spock345

I have never seen that before. All the ones I have seen haven't had flaws like that. I guess one too many beers during lunch was a problem in Chicago too. Also I think that is a varsity judging by the side pull brake. It looks more like peeling from rust under the paint than a brazing issue.

CuttersRidge

For whatever it's worth, Raleigh won the '79(?) Tour de France with Joop Zoetemelk.

jetboy 

Lucas prince of darkness (an apt name for a company that made "lights"). I have had a BSA or two.

but I'd chime in to suggest that it is the ..lack.. of QC that actually give the brand charm. At this point no one is in it for the performance: if that is your bag go get some modern CF. A bodge here, a chisel mark there, these give the bike character, and uniqueness. its how you know its yours...

cycleheimer

I used to love the look of the Raleigh's, but came to love Fuji's because of the combination of the quality of their ride and reliability. I used to work in a shop when I was a kid. I used to love working on Japanese bikes, which just seemed to me to be much better thought out and made. Some of the '77 and '78 Raleigh's with SunTour components and cotterless alloy cranks were very nice. The frames and graphics were also beautiful. Like Schwinn, Raleigh recognized the quality of cost-effectictive Japanese manufacturing. I've actually found, in my opinion, the Raleigh USA bikes to be very nice. Different company, and the bikes were manufactured in Japan and Taiwan. These bikes, at least the mid-range models I've seen, are much better made than similar models from the old Raleigh back in the '70's. Bikes in general, though, improved as you got into the '80's. I believe the Japanese manufacturers can be thanked for that.

bulldog1935

fair enough, and I remember that - several years of good marketing resulted for them and the timing probably saved the company from the onslaught of superior (by then) Japanese bikes.

and that poor fillet weld above didn't come from any Raleigh factory - looks like hammered crap from somebody's garage.

randyjawa 

As mentioned earlier, I do not hate Raleigh bicycles. Proof of that pudding? Yesterday, I bought my oldest grandson a Raleigh that he will be using for basic transportation. The Raleigh seems to be well made and I am pretty sure that it has never ever been to England...

bulldog1935

reverence of the name - no worries, we take you at face value.
If you look at their current line, they offer some well-thought-out bikes.
There's a shop here where people will walk past a Giant-cut-cookie to buy a Raleigh-cut-cookie.
If we go forward centuries, people may not remember Giant bikes, but they will always remember Raleigh bikes (and may still be branding them).

another simple test - how many here had 70s Raleighs and wish they still had them? (rhetorical)

KonAaron Snake 

IC lugs can largely be thanked for that. They came on the marlet at about the same time as the Japanese penetration, and some of what we credit to the Japanese is really creditable to IC lugs.

Vintage Raleigh

Come to think of it a lot of 70s products QC were hit and miss - Martin guitars came without adjustable truss rods and tended to bow over time. the pick guard was under the top lacquer and also would bow taking the lacquer with it. Cost cutting measures to cope with the guitar boom. Fenders too were inconsistent in quality during that period after the CBS takeover.