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Decoding of Eddy Merckx frames

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Decoding of Eddy Merckx frames

Old 07-22-20, 12:44 PM
  #226  
CyclesMakaron
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There is always a chance that this is really a team frame (and that would be a big surprise)... and then the mix of Deda 01 and Columbus (rifling in steering tube) would be very interesting...
This is the very beginning of Corsa 01 - it is possible that someone considered the Columbus rifling in steering tube to be "better and more reliable" than Deda...
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Old 07-22-20, 02:22 PM
  #227  
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Hi everyone,

I am new here and came for the great Merckx content This is an awesome thread, thank you all for contributing.

I'd like to ID two Eddy Merckx's (but unfortunately cannot post images yet):
  1. A Motorola (team livery, but no team frame) - as far as I can tell, the drive side reads "P" (on top) with "5TTB" below; the non-drive side reads "D-5048".
  2. An Arcobaleno - no drive side number, G 231 on the non-drive side

Any help would be greatly appreciated and I'll post some pics as soon as I am allowed to!

Thanks much.
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Old 07-22-20, 11:00 PM
  #228  
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P5TTB D5048 - TSX Century built in November 1992
G231 - built at the turn of 1995/1996
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Old 07-23-20, 12:52 AM
  #229  
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Here we go, pictures finally! First picture is the steerer from the Stuttgart, the rest are the ASLK. This frame isn't the same as a Corsa 01 in the bb area. This has round tubes, versus the ovalised of the Corsa 01. I have one available to me that I've compared it to.














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Old 07-23-20, 01:24 AM
  #230  
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Originally Posted by CyclesMakaron View Post
P5TTB D5048 - TSX Century built in November 1992
G231 - built at the turn of 1995/1996
Thanks!

Interestingly, the 95/96 is in the 10-yr anniversary color scheme.
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Old 07-23-20, 10:37 AM
  #231  
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H F5242
...a nice puzzle...
Deda ZeroUno was produced in different "diameters", it is impossible to determine the manufacturer and model of tubes from the dimensions (because others did the same)
The "Deda" sticker from your frame is the only one in this layout I've seen on the EMC frame
Your frame would be the oldest Corsa 01 I ever registered
Your frame would be the only Corsa 01 with a regular "round" tube section I've seen
95% of Corsa 01 frames had a different chrome plating style
...and until then there's nothing wrong with it - because if it's a "prototype" Corsa 01 built from "normal ZeroUno" (instead of "speciale series per Eddy Merckx", used for sure already in 1995) with added Columbus fork (because deda wasn't available for some reason) and unusually chromium-plated (because this is the beginning of production and the "scheme" hasn't appeared yet) all this can be explained...
...but for the time being it is not possible to prove it...
What diameter do the tubes have?
Have you checked the inside of the tubes visible through the BB cover?
What do the steering tube and the markings visible there look like?

tubi alleggeriti a sezione variabile = lightened tubes with variable section
Who knows what that really means?
"Butted" or "ovalised"?

A8542 - 100% authentic, DP = Stuttgart team pattern
G231 - Arcobaleno in 10th Anni is a customized whim... but if they repainted it in EMC - you really have a unique one
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Old 07-23-20, 02:43 PM
  #232  
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The Arcobaleno is a stunner for sure. Almost sold it a few years ago, but then learned more about it's history.
Will post pics soon...!

Thanks again.
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Old 07-24-20, 05:12 AM
  #233  
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Jacek, the tube sizes are the same as the Corsa 01 except for the seatstays. Top tube and seat tube are both 29mm diameter, down tube 32mm. The ASLK has seatstays that are 14.2mm diameter at the top versus 16.2mm on a Corsa 01. Chainstays are the same between both. The lugs are all different to the Corsa 01. The fork has the Columbus spiral rifling in the bottom of the steerer. The tubes of the main frame don't have anything visible through the bb area, I specifically looked after discovering that the fork was Columbus.

Some detective work was needed on the steerer label, needed an ultraviolet light and a magnifying glass.
F5242
DED LC S (this line very hard to make out, could be numbers)
P
F+F MT (I take this to be a paint code)



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Old 07-24-20, 10:45 AM
  #234  
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...is very strange...
- seatlug: I've only seen identical ones in the Strada model so far... both versions (!) - Strada OS and the old Strada Cromor/Gara
- BB cover: identical I saw in Strada OS model
- seatstay diameter: it doesn't look oversized - it could be Columbus (SLX or Brain) for sure... I don't have access to old Deda catalogues, but in newer ones there are no 14mm seatstays, only 16mm...
Can you add photos of a steering tube card? At least 3, taken from different angles - maybe my tired brain will react somehow...

Last edited by CyclesMakaron; 07-25-20 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 07-25-20, 11:50 PM
  #235  
CyclesMakaron
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...a small addition...
Both "lugs sets", signed as "ASLK" and "Corsa 01" were used to build... ...both models: Strada OS and Corsa 01 - the "ASLK" set is earlier (...it can also be found in the Corsa Thron), the "Corsa 01" set is later...
Conclusion: from the "set of lugs" it is not possible to determine the frame model...
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Old 07-26-20, 05:48 AM
  #236  
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I'm an idiot, I figured out part of the steerer label> DEDAUO So the painters knew what tube sticker to fit I guess. A picture won't help much, I needed an ultraviolet light and a magnifying glass to read it. My impression is same as yours, that the seatstays would be Columbus something or other. Don't lose too much sleep over it, we can just accept it as a mystery. You could add G2350 to your file, it's a last version MXL in DRR colour.
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Old 07-26-20, 06:49 AM
  #237  
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Mystery? Not anymore... for about 95%
It looks like "prototype" of Corsa 01, built just after extinction of Corsa Thron series production, but before creating ovalised tubes for special EMC order (serial markings match it perfectly).
I found identical Deda stickers on Moser frames and...these tubes were not ovalised in their original version.
F+F MT is probably Frame+Fork (KV = Kader +Vork was used more often) and the painting code is "inverted" TM = Motorola code
You have a unique frame, it was nice to see it - thank you
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Old 07-27-20, 03:35 AM
  #238  
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hi Jacek and Magos,

i just purchased an ED Corsa Extra SLX which by coinsidence i found it mentioned here in this interesting thread

Left: S
Right: C4484
Team Telecom
Model early 1991
Riders name: Carlo Janssens.

i took the front fork off to check for the label that Jacek mentioned that could possibly exist inorder to find more info on this bike, but the label did NOT exist unfortunately.

I write this post because of two questions that i have:

1. i purchased this bike with Campagnolo Chorus 8 speed groupset and Campagnolo Epsilon strada G25 wheels having......9 gears on them... After alot of effort i finally found that the rest of the group was 8 speed (was not clear to me at start) so that is why it would never tune up right. In any case i ordered to buy 9 speed derailleur and grips to make it work. But the question is: I look at the catalogues of 1990/1991/1992 and i only see bikes with "traditional shifters" located on the tube and NOT these chorus shifters on the grip that my bike has. Was there an option as to what kind of groupset/shifters one could fit at that time? Or were mine fitted later maybe?
2. Question for Magos (sorry but i can't PM you because of only one post here i am not allowed) : I don't think i bought the bike from you directly so when you sold the bike did it have above componets (Chorus 8 groupset but wheels with 9 gears?) or maybe something was changed?

by the way the bike is really great and in very good condition !!

tnx and sorry for the long bandwidth.

Costas

Last edited by SV1OAA; 07-27-20 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 07-27-20, 11:00 AM
  #239  
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In EMC, the head tube slides (STI) option was definitely available in 1992.
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Old 07-28-20, 12:39 AM
  #240  
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Thank you for your kind reply Jacek
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Old 07-29-20, 04:14 AM
  #241  
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I assume somebody has put the wrong frame tubing sticker on this after the refurb. BB says R, Reynolds, downtube sticker says Columbus. Nice bike though.


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Old 07-29-20, 10:50 AM
  #242  
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You're obviously right...
I contacted the SVB and explained the problem (the second one is the wrong EM-logo stickers) - somebody from the SVB admitted me right (very politely) and for now that's all
...I'll add that the descriptions of EMC bikes in the SVB shop should be analyzed very carefully and without rush... I can't write it any more gently...
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Old 08-02-20, 03:04 AM
  #243  
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Good morning Jacek,

I hope you are well. I know you have seen this frame when it was listed, and I've mentioned it in passing before, but did not confirm it was me that won it for fear of cursing it before I had it in my hands. A virus threw the world into chaos, and so I only received this yesterday after purchasing it in February. It has been a very long and nervous wait, but it arrived all safe and well.

It appears to be one of the near mythical chromed Reynolds 753 Merckx frames. I have never seen this colour scheme before but love it, does this colour scheme have an official name? I've just been calling it a green camo scheme, but would like to know if this scheme has a proper name.

I have had a good look down the fork steerer which has no spiral ribbing. And I have had a feel around the inside of the seat tube at the bottom bracket and there are no spirals there either, unlike my 85 Pro SLX Team Panasonic which has these spirals.

My Panasonic has the flat bottomed rear brake bridge, but this new frame has the arched bottom version.



Here is a pic of the bottom bracket markings

Does that make this frame from 1988? Frame measures 60cm CTT seat tube with a 58cm TT which accounts for the '6' on the BB. I assume this is about as large as frames made in 753 ever got. It is in amazingly good condition, it has only one or two chips in the paint but otherwise in amazing condition for a 30+ year old Merckx.

I also removed the fork to check if there was any labels on the steerer for you to inspect, but there was no label, or any trace of it ever having had a label that I could see. The only markings on the fork steerer are the number stampings which match those on the BB, so it seems at least this is the original fork for the frame.

I'd welcome any more thoughts or info you have, thanks.
Dan
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Old 08-02-20, 05:09 AM
  #244  
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One of my favorite EMC frames... massacred my optimistic assumption about not chrome plating R753 and reliability of descriptions from EMC catalogues
Built in 1988 (it should have Grand Prix sticker), very similar painting you can find on 2nd page of 1989 catalogue (bottom picture, first frame) - I don't know the code mark.
This model brake bridge (I call it Silva 3) was introduced in 1987 - first to higher models, then to Corsa and finally to Strada (since then it is impossible to identify EMC frames by this element).
Frame markings R653 and R753 were very economical - they did not contain the "seat tube length" digit and type/geo/tubes markings.
Undoubtedly frame+fork=authentic set
If you don't find "riflings" anywhere and the frame is really light - you have a beautiful unique EMC Grand Prix with chrome R753 tubes (which is "impossible" according to EMC catalogues) and very rare painting...
Isn't life beautiful?
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Old 08-02-20, 06:27 AM
  #245  
botty kayer
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Thanks CyclesMakaron I was in love as soon as I saw the green and chrome.

I don't have any scales at home but yes the frame is remarkably light considering how much chrome there is on it. EDIT: And to confirm I've jut had a grope around the other tubes connected to the bottom bracket, and there are no rifling on the down tube or the chain stays just like there is none in the seat tube, headtube & steerer

The super long wait for the frame to arrive has given me the time to purchase all the shiny silver parts to go on it, so I'll post a pic in main Merckx thread when its finished.

Thanks again, enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Last edited by botty kayer; 08-02-20 at 06:43 AM.
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Old 08-02-20, 09:11 AM
  #246  
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That’s stunning.
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