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Decoding of Eddy Merckx frames

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Decoding of Eddy Merckx frames

Old 11-01-19, 12:25 AM
  #101  
CyclesMakaron
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The situation is getting complicated... our blue friend looks like he's "built on an EMC frame". To unusual cable guides for top tube and unique fork should be added lower front lug - certainly not used in EMC (I've seen it in other frames built in Belgium, certainly Plum and Heydens). If I had to guess: it's an EMC frame rebuilt after an "event", where the top tube, front bottom lug and fork are replaced (the rest looks like 100% EMC) - it's just speculation. Frames with the "V" marking (and I know only four of them) are unusual, I don't know what it results from (one built for eight-year-old Axel M., one is a display unit or a gift - gold, with atypically mounted rear brake, one with atypical serial marking) - maybe only because it is the beginning of production and not yet determined all the details of the frame's construction.

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Old 11-01-19, 07:33 AM
  #102  
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Thanks again CyclesMakaron for your expertise.
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Old 11-04-19, 03:01 PM
  #103  
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Saw a nice one this weekend, the Caloi model. Had the rider's name on it, and the jersey.

Sitting next to it was Tom Boonen's EMX-7.

And 2 Team Panasonics, a Reynolds Crest Cannondale, 2 Colnago Masters.... nice shop.
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Old 11-15-19, 03:44 PM
  #104  
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Here's a mystery - at least to me. I only see numbers on this Merckx bottom bracket.

7 5
9940

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Old 11-16-19, 01:12 AM
  #105  
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It is rather 7 E9940, Eddy Merckx (Professional) 1984 (around "7" there should be a letter, most likely G,A,P,M; maybe even R).
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Old 11-16-19, 08:54 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by CyclesMakaron View Post
It is rather 7 E9940, Eddy Merckx (Professional) 1984 (around "7" there should be a letter, most likely G,A,P,M; maybe even R).
Aha! Once I saw "5" instead of "E", I couldn't see it any other way. Contemplating buying this one. Would like to have an early Merckx.
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Old 02-12-20, 05:47 AM
  #107  
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Eddy Merckx Geometry ?

We are repairing a crashed frame that had the tubes removed and don't know the geometry. It has a number on the bottom bracket of E 9920 and an A on the other side. Is there a way to find it out.
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Old 02-12-20, 07:37 AM
  #108  
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Wow nice
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Old 02-13-20, 01:24 AM
  #109  
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This is Eddy Merckx Professional 1984, the frame has a "road race" geometry. All Professional, early Corsa, Corsa Extra, 3-Athlete, Strada had this geometry. You can find a table with some dimensions and angles of this geometry in catalogues 1991 and 1994 - welcome to my threads
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Old 02-17-20, 03:30 AM
  #110  
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Hi,
First of all thanks for your efforts in obtaining all this knowledge, it's very interesting to follow.
I have the following Merckx frame of which I would like to have more insight:

- left side: 6 and way underneath what looks to be an inverted P
- right side: Z and 570

I also have the "modele vitus dep" cable guides under the bracket and would like to know why certain frames have this and others not.
And finally the seatpost is a 27 while it looks that normally these frames seem to have a 27,2

cheers,
Peter

Last edited by BE_Peter; 02-17-20 at 03:52 AM.
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Old 02-17-20, 01:33 PM
  #111  
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P6 Z570 - year of manufacture 1984; at that time, EMC produced Professional (Columbus SL/SP or Reynolds 531 tubes), 3-Athlete (Reynolds 501) and Pro (Columbus SLX/SPX or Reynolds 753) models. Only one of them had "its" designation - Professional R531: on the left side the letter R. The 3-Athlete model has 2 unique features: dropouts of a different shape than Campagnolo, with "Eddy Merckx" and BB cover without recesses (4 or 6) or with cutouts =. There are no 'riflings' inside the steering tubes and it has... seatpost 27 (or 26,8). The Pro 753 has no riflings, no chrome-plated tubes and is extremely lightweight. Models built with Columbus have "riflings", Professional has always had Gipiemme "cube" brake bridge, Pro almost always has Silva brake bridge. The surest confirmation for SLX/SPX is to see the tube ends visible inside the BB cover - all should have "riflings". Some photos could help Vitus cable guide is characteristic for EMC 1984 frames (it was an option), most often it appeared in Professional and 3-Athlete.

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Old 02-18-20, 12:51 AM
  #112  
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Thanks for the detailed response, much appreciated.
Bike will be disassembled shortly to be refurbished, an ideal opportunity to post some pictures of the inner tubes and get confirmation.

Last edited by BE_Peter; 02-24-20 at 05:24 AM.
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Old 02-26-20, 09:43 AM
  #113  
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Hello Jacek,

I hope 2020 is treating you well.

I have just acquired a new to me Merckx frame. It's a MX Leader with MXL tubing in the Domo Farm Frites colours. Team frites, that's my kind of team

I think its one of the later ones as it has the Merckx logo stamped at the top of the seat stays, and also has cable guides on the side of the head tube. That's all I know about, so I'd be very grateful if you are able to provide any further info.

I have seen other Domo Farm Frites bikes that appear to have different logos on the downtube and seat tube, but I prefer this one as the seat tube and down tube lettering are in the same font. Another one I saw online has a slightly different pattern on the fork, but I don't know the reasons for the subtle differences between these frames and wondered if you did.

Some pics.




And here's the bottom bracket, the letters and numbers on the right side are clearly D and 9602 but I can't quite make out the code on the left side. I thought it was D but having looked more closely and on zoom it looks like it might me P.

Thanks in advance for any further information you can provide.
regards
Dan
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Old 02-26-20, 10:18 AM
  #114  
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Hi Jacek,
tried to post some pictures of the tubing however I'm not allowed to post them here... Any tips how to get them to you?
Cheers,
Peter
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Old 02-26-20, 11:12 AM
  #115  
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A long, long time ago, the EMC factory in Meise was getting ready for the new season - 1994. It was the Belgian autumn of 1993, it may have been November, and it was the month in which the frames for professional teams was being built... Slightly earlier a frame was built (for sure) for Jan Schur (Motorola - D9563) and after about a week a frame for Frank Vandenbroucke (Lotto-Caloi - D9674) was built (also for sure). In the meantime time was found to build the frame D9602 - it is not known in what painting pattern (unless there is some information preserved on the steering tube - which after painting in - probably 2001 - is rather improbable), it is not known for whom and it is not even known whether for a professional rider. However, the owner, whoever he was, decided to repaint the frame - for this purpose he gave it to Meise to be done superprofessionally.
And that would be the end of this touching story, if not for a certain possibility: this is a frame built for a profi rider, who was riding EM bikes in 1994, then he kept it for himself as a training bike (it didn't bother anyone in the next groups, because they didn't use EMC bikes), until finally he got back to the team riding EM and He MUST have painted the frame in new colors... Something like that once happened to Cezary Zamana, his EM from 1992 was repainted on Motorola-Caloi for the 1995 season (the legendary D611). The question: did such a rider exist? ...Yes, he spent the 1994 season in Lotto-Caloi and the 2001 season in Domo Farm Frites... In front of you: Mario De Clercq - a loud applause please (great rider, 3 times World Champion in ...cyclocross).
Now this - you will admit - beautiful story must be proved...

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Old 02-26-20, 11:16 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by BE_Peter View Post
Hi Jacek,
tried to post some pictures of the tubing however I'm not allowed to post them here... Any tips how to get them to you?
Cheers,
Peter
Sorry, I don't remember, but I guess you have to write 5 posts (if that's true - you still have 2 left).
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Old 02-26-20, 11:35 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by CyclesMakaron View Post
A long, long time ago, the EMC factory in Meise was getting ready for the new season - 1994. It was the Belgian autumn of 1993, it may have been November, and it was the month in which the frames for professional teams was being built... Slightly earlier a frame was built (for sure) for Jan Schur (Motorola - D9563) and after about a week a frame for Frank Vandenbroucke (Lotto-Caloi - D9674) was built (also for sure). In the meantime time was found to build the frame D9602 - it is not known in what painting pattern (unless there is some information preserved on the steering tube - which after painting in - probably 2001 - is rather improbable), it is not known for whom and it is not even known whether for a professional rider. However, the owner, whoever he was, decided to repaint the frame - for this purpose he gave it to Meise to be done superprofessionally.
And that would be the end of this touching story, if not for a certain possibility: this is a frame built for a profi rider, who was riding EM bikes in 1994, then he kept it for himself as a training bike (it didn't bother anyone in the next groups, because they didn't use EMC bikes), until finally he got back to the team riding EM and He MUST have painted the frame in new colors... Something like that once happened to Cezary Zamana, his EM from 1992 was repainted on Motorola-Caloi for the 1995 season (the legendary D611). The question: did such a rider exist? ...Yes, he spent the 1994 season in Lotto-Caloi and the 2001 season in Domo Farm Frites... In front of you: Mario De Clercq - a loud applause please (great rider, 3 times World Champion in ...cyclocross).
Now this - you will admit - beautiful story must be proved...

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You sir are brilliant, you paint such an evocative scene

So its a late 93/early 94 frame. I didn't mention it before but there is a name on the top tube, I looked up the name but did not find anything on it, so asked the previous owner. He said the name on the top tube was not a pro rider, but that of Belgian club rider who said he ordered the frame in the Merckx factory. I was told this info but have no idea if that is true or not. I thought as he was not a pro rider I'd best not plaster his name over the internet which is why I did not post it.

I have just had a look at the fork steerer, and the only markings on it are the remains of some writing on an old sticker near the threaded end of the fork. Hers is a pic.

Is that any help or mean anything to you?
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Old 02-26-20, 02:50 PM
  #118  
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Well, if I have a frame built for the 1994 season and the name Lefevre, then by far the coolest association would be... Laurent Lefevre and his second (road) and third (ITT) place (Under-19 category) in Agrigento World Championships 1994... but Laurent was French and probably drove on some Look or Vitus - one photo would explain the doubts. The letters DDT are also mysterious; as a rule, it was a code of pattern and frame painting colours... But the aforementioned D9674 frame had a VDB, which meant Vandenbroucke... The case requires a thorough investigation.

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Old 02-28-20, 11:49 AM
  #119  
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Thanks again, very interesting.

I have seen you mention across your various threads that you own a number of Eddy Merckx frames. Have you posted pics of them on this forum somewhere? If yes where are they? I'd love to see what kind of Eddy's you have in your collection
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Old 02-28-20, 12:13 PM
  #120  
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Regarding using frame details to "decode" EM frames: Every EM frame could be ordered "customized", the mod options included where and which braze-ons, chroming, engraving of seatstays, fork crown form, bottleholder mounts, number holder, tubing and geometry. The surplus fee was a moderate 50 DM in 1990 for german customers, but it took up to 9 months delivery.
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Old 02-28-20, 01:02 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by botty kayer View Post
Thanks again, very interesting.

I have seen you mention across your various threads that you own a number of Eddy Merckx frames. Have you posted pics of them on this forum somewhere? If yes where are they? I'd love to see what kind of Eddy's you have in your collection
At the height of my madness, I had 17 EMC frames... At the end of last year I thought it was cool to have these frames, but it would be even cooler if someone else would ride them - hence the decision to sell them... I intend to keep a maximum of 8 frames - one of them I presented in a separate thread: Eddy Merckx Aero 1981; the others are the unusual EM Professional 1980 ("signature"), EM Professional Team Winning 1983, EM Pro SLX Team Panasonic 1986, EM Criterium 1987, EM Corsa Extra Max 1991, EM Corsa Extra 753 1991, EM Chrono SLX 1993 - maybe they'll also get "their" threads.

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Old 02-28-20, 01:50 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by martl View Post
Regarding using frame details to "decode" EM frames: Every EM frame could be ordered "customized", the mod options included where and which braze-ons, chroming, engraving of seatstays, fork crown form, bottleholder mounts, number holder, tubing and geometry. The surplus fee was a moderate 50 DM in 1990 for german customers, but it took up to 9 months delivery.
It's true... but not exactly one by one: mod options were limited to what was shown and described in catalogues, there was no full freedom as to the model of tubes used and geometry. If you ordered a Corsa model in 1990, you decided on "braze-ons trifles". (number hanger, cable slides, bottleholder mounts etc), you had a choice of Columbus SL/SP or Reynolds 531, but only "road race" geometry. The Corsa Extra model (1990) allowed an amazing choice of options, apart from "trinkets" as many as 4 tube models (Reynolds 753, Columbus SLX/SPX, TSX and MAX), but very strongly related types of geometry (753 - only "road race", Max - only "century", the rest could be ordered in both versions). It should be remembered that the "braze-ons details" models changed over time, they also changed their position (e.g. top tube slides); "chrome plating" was an option, but not in the case of the early 753 (without this option), on the other hand, the fastest way to identify "from afar" the frames of the Corsa 01 and Strada OS is unique for each model "chrome plating", which is just... ceased to be an option; if you add to this seasonal changes in painting patterns and used decals you get the opportunity to organize this whole crazy thing into a logical evolutionary sequence... Fortunately these are only auxiliary elements - the most important are manufacturer's markings placed on BB cover and steering tube (that's why every description of EMC frame should contain these markings - preferably as photos) - their reading solves 90% of problems with EMC frame identification (if you add 3-4 photos of the most important details, clear pictures of painting pattern and decals used - chances increase to 99%).

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Old 03-03-20, 08:28 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by CyclesMakaron View Post
At the height of my madness, I had 17 EMC frames... At the end of last year I thought it was cool to have these frames, but it would be even cooler if someone else would ride them - hence the decision to sell them... I intend to keep a maximum of 8 frames - one of them I presented in a separate thread: Eddy Merckx Aero 1981; the others are the unusual EM Professional 1980 ("signature"), EM Professional Team Winning 1983, EM Pro SLX Team Panasonic 1986, EM Criterium 1987, EM Corsa Extra Max 1991, EM Corsa Extra 753 1991, EM Chrono SLX 1993 - maybe they'll also get "their" threads.

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Woah 17, that was quite a bike cave you had. And the ones you have left sound very cool.

As this thread has proved, and you yourself have said many times, the descriptions are one thing, but it would be improved with pics . Please post them, on your own threads or elsewhere, they sound too nice to be hidden away
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Old 03-03-20, 09:20 AM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by CyclesMakaron View Post
It's true... but not exactly one by one: mod options were limited to what was shown and described in catalogues, there was no full freedom as to the model of tubes used and geometry. If you ordered a Corsa model in 1990, you decided on "braze-ons trifles". (number hanger, cable slides, bottleholder mounts etc), you had a choice of Columbus SL/SP or Reynolds 531, but only "road race" geometry. The Corsa Extra model (1990) allowed an amazing choice of options, apart from "trinkets" as many as 4 tube models (Reynolds 753, Columbus SLX/SPX, TSX and MAX), but very strongly related types of geometry (753 - only "road race", Max - only "century", the rest could be ordered in both versions). It should be remembered that the "braze-ons details" models changed over time, they also changed their position (e.g. top tube slides); "chrome plating" was an option, but not in the case of the early 753 (without this option), on the other hand, the fastest way to identify "from afar" the frames of the Corsa 01 and Strada OS is unique for each model "chrome plating", which is just... ceased to be an option; if you add to this seasonal changes in painting patterns and used decals you get the opportunity to organize this whole crazy thing into a logical evolutionary sequence... Fortunately these are only auxiliary elements - the most important are manufacturer's markings placed on BB cover and steering tube (that's why every description of EMC frame should contain these markings - preferably as photos) - their reading solves 90% of problems with EMC frame identification (if you add 3-4 photos of the most important details, clear pictures of painting pattern and decals used - chances increase to 99%).

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i trust your judgement, i've just rephrased what a first owner of a custom 10th anniversary recalled on another forum tbh i'm still amazed at the level of customization available then. Almost unrelated: In that time, some magazines mentioned that the marvellous customer service of Merckx meant you could get original touch-up paint for your bike. A clubmate tried it for his MX Leader, and after a humble waiting time of several months, he received a micro enamel can like those available for die-cast plastic models, containing a generic blue not like any calor present on his frame. Some information must have been lost on the long chain between the dealer and the factory....

Last edited by martl; 03-03-20 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 03-03-20, 11:12 AM
  #125  
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10th Anni was a very unusual thing - it was not a specific model, but only "jubilee" colors that could be applied to every available "top" model; I've already seen in these (beautiful) colors Corsa Extra SLX, TSX (in both geometries: road racing and Century), 753, Grand Prix ... the list of "trifles" options in these models was impressive. "Joke with paint" could not necessarily have been caused by "noise on the links" ... sometimes the color shades changed every season - if employees changed at a similar frequency then ... well, someone took a shortcut.
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