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Should I buy this frame?

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Old 12-09-09 | 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by EjustE
To the OP:

Check the material here as well:

https://www.43bikes.com/colnago-70s-details.html

this bike does not jive...
Yeah, only the seat-lug, head-lugs, fork-crown, seat-stays, rear drop-out treatment, and BB guides, are correct for a mid 70's Super. It's way off! I hate to keep getting personal but it is you that is making with the jive.

And FWIW, I'm not the seller (although I have owned a few mid 70's Super's). And I'm giving up on this thread. I think the OP can figure this one out for himself despite the mis-information that's piling up.
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Old 12-09-09 | 08:29 PM
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Thanks again, Otis : )
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Old 12-09-09 | 08:36 PM
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Couple of things. Those tires look like Clement Speciale Corsa or Jet tubulars. I'm at the LBS right now, and four of us agree, the wheels look like 700c tubulars. But let's not get sidetracked. Let's see if atarom can obtain some additional pics, that should provide us some hints. The guides are not going to be an issue for a skilled builder. I'll send you pics of the guides on my bike if that eases your mind atarom.
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Old 12-09-09 | 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Otis
Yeah, only the seat-lug, head-lugs, fork-crown, seat-stays, rear drop-out treatment, and BB guides, are correct for a mid 70's Super.
Let's look at the guide:

Headlugs:
1973: 3 lugs cutout, all same size. There is general consensus on this too but note again that an experienced member believes the single cut-out came earlier; may have been as early as 1972.
1974: Cutout in bottom headlug only.
1975: Cutout in bottom headlug only.

So this is either a 74 or 75

Fork Crown:

1974: IC crown, club in top of each side of crown.
1975: IC crown, club and "COLNAGO" on top of each side of crown. There were numerous contributions supporting this but again, a experienced member took the time to write "This is too early for the *Colnago* in the crown. I think that came in by 1977 or so. The first generation Mexico's had no "Colnago" in the crown, and their first year was 1975...earliest possible year for the Colnago stamp in the crown would be 1976, but I'm betting it was later than that.


So this may be a 1975, but most likely a 1976+

BB:

1975: Club cutout in BB shell.

(this is not shown here and a good thing for the OP to check)

Braze-ons:
197? & earlier: none except chain stay derailleur cable stop
check
197? - 197?: Above plus over BB cable guides
check
197? - 197?: Above plus shift lever mounts
check
197? - 197?: Above plus one set DT water bottle mounts
check
19?? - 19??: Above plus ST water bottle mounts
No
1976/77: Above plus first appearance of two TT brake cable guides (note that the "Colnago" cast into the fork crowns definitely happened before the addition of TT brake cable braze-ons).
No

Don't you see any inaccuracies here?
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Old 12-09-09 | 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Otis at ejuste
Are you nuts? Sorry, but when you are this far off it would be better not to post a reply.
Good advice here... good advice...
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Old 12-09-09 | 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Otis
You need to stop! You do not know what you are talking about. Yes the cable guides were added to this bike when it was painted. Colnago's, like most good racing bikes used clamp-on guides until the middle-late 70's

Are you confusing the "Mexico" model (which was their top of the line bike in the 70's), with a thought that some Colnagos were built in Mexico? They were not.
Weren't these bikes (Mexico) named as reference to Eddy Merckx's hour record? Also, we were looking at some older pictures of Supers at the shop and we can't find any with tt braze-ons before 1978. EjustE- this may explain some of the confusion with three tt guides- it might be easily explained as a "math" issue when they put on three, not two. We also were picking through our feeble older minds to remember when we started to see "Colnago" on the seat caps. Late 1970's maybe. Again, I'd buy it if it fits. Very cool project waiting to happen. There is an early 80's Super on our CL, but I've already been put on a bike diet till spring.
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Old 12-09-09 | 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by gomango
Weren't these bikes (Mexico) named as reference to Eddy Merckx's hour record? Also, we were looking at some older pictures of Supers at the shop and we can't find any with tt braze-ons before 1978. EjustE- this may explain some of the confusion with three tt guides- it might be easily explained as a "math" issue when they put on three, not two. We also were picking through our feeble older minds to remember when we started to see "Colnago" on the seat caps. Late 1970's maybe. Again, I'd buy it if it fits. Very cool project waiting to happen. There is an early 80's Super on our CL, but I've already been put on a bike diet till spring.
Yeah. The Colnago Mexico bikes were indeed that, first produced in 1975, made in Italy. With "mexican" above, I was referring to a slew of Colnago (and Gios, among other Italian brands, but the Gios case got a lot of ink) semi-quasi-legal copies produced in Mexico in the late 70s and early 80s... Not bad bikes, the frame material was the same, but attention to detail was not.
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Old 12-10-09 | 04:47 PM
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Next question: Any suggestions on an appropriate wheelset?
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Old 12-10-09 | 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by atarom
Next question: Any suggestions on an appropriate wheelset?
have you determined if it's a 700C or 27" frame?
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Old 12-10-09 | 06:03 PM
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I haven't. I'll find out for sure when I get it in a couple days, but until then, do you have suggestions for both? I've tried looking up what size it would most likely be, but to no avail...

also.... droooooll...
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Old 12-10-09 | 06:14 PM
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The bike IS a mid 70's Colnago, it has been repainted and had cable guides added.

The "mexican" bikes you are referring to are Windsors that look like Cinellis and some Benottos. I have never heard of knock off Colnagos from Mexico and if there were, this isn't one of them.

thirst

Originally Posted by EjustE
Yeah. The Colnago Mexico bikes were indeed that, first produced in 1975, made in Italy. With "mexican" above, I was referring to a slew of Colnago (and Gios, among other Italian brands, but the Gios case got a lot of ink) semi-quasi-legal copies produced in Mexico in the late 70s and early 80s... Not bad bikes, the frame material was the same, but attention to detail was not.
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Old 12-10-09 | 06:16 PM
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It is 700C

thirst

Originally Posted by Steve530
have you determined if it's a 700C or 27" frame?
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Old 12-10-09 | 06:31 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by thirst
The "mexican" bikes you are referring to are Windsors that look like Cinellis and some Benottos. I have never heard of knock off Colnagos from Mexico and if there were, this isn't one of them.
thirst
There were legitimately-produced Benottos in Mexico (the ones with the breaking frames). I am not referring to those... I am referring to the counterfeit Gios and Golnagos produced there. Even Sheldon Brown has the information for the counterfeit Gios bikes in his site (they were the majority of the brands that were counterfeited, but not the only. A sizeable amount of the counterfeit bikes had Colnago marks)
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Old 12-10-09 | 06:46 PM
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So yeah, apparently it's 700C. I'm on the lookout for components too...
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Old 12-11-09 | 01:42 PM
  #40  
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Bikes: Crap. The box is not big enough...

the bike is a real, mid-70's Colnago, back when they were still made at Colnago's factory. It has the typical very high quality workmanship of the era. There are no steady rules about Colnagos, as during the 70's they were largely one-offs, and during the 80's they were largely subcontracted to who-knows-who. A typical Colnago of the era would have been built with nuovo record/record components. The repaint looks nice, and it is in an original color, and you can get repop decals just about everywhere (eBay has a bunch). Make sure that your reproduction decals are the correct ones, as they varied through the years. A little shopping will get you the right set.

Too bad about the cable guides...if it were mine I'd be tempted to have 'em removed and get it repainted, because this is a nice one.
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Old 12-11-09 | 01:43 PM
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Bikes: Crap. The box is not big enough...

oh, and I'd at least try to keep the grouppo pre-cpsc (1978). The tiny details are for compulsives (like, um, me).
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