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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 06-24-17, 06:18 PM
  #13101  
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I love that maroon color. Looks great with the brown saddle and white walls. It reminds me that I do still have another project I could get to. I still haven't done a thing to that old Westfield Elgin. Might do that after I get the roadster finished. I get bored without a project going. I wonder what I'll find inside this hub? Could be interesting. The only coaster I've had apart was the usual Bendix.

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Old 06-24-17, 07:16 PM
  #13102  
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@Big Chief - I'm jealous. I'd love to take that apart. I hope you take some close up photos. I'll be waiting.
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Old 06-24-17, 08:26 PM
  #13103  
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Originally Posted by BigChief View Post
I love that maroon color. Looks great with the brown saddle and white walls. It reminds me that I do still have another project I could get to. I still haven't done a thing to that old Westfield Elgin. Might do that after I get the roadster finished. I get bored without a project going. I wonder what I'll find inside this hub? Could be interesting. The only coaster I've had apart was the usual Bendix.

Really cool. I think Musselman made those. The inside may be a "sleeve" type brake. They made them with and without the fins over the years. Supposedly the fins aided in cooling by providing more surface area in the hub shell. I have no idea if that idea works.

https://www.timesofplenty.com/2015/img037.jpg

Some of the first truly modern "three-speed"-style bikes for adults made in the US were actually single speed coasters. I have a Westfield from well before WWII began for the US, with a New Departure Model D. It even has an add-on Philco English front brake.

In the late 1930s, several American companies copied the English Sports-style bikes to try to revive adult cycling in the US. This 1940 Westfield is part of the early effort in the US. This effort came to fruition about 1937-38 and was in full force by 1942. Many of these English-style American-made bikes became civilian transportation during the WWII gas rationing in the US. Over the past few years I've become somewhat passionate about trying to save these somewhat-forgotten (at least compared to the truly English-made three-speed) bikes.



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Old 06-24-17, 08:34 PM
  #13104  
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen View Post
@Big Chief - I'm jealous. I'd love to take that apart. I hope you take some close up photos. I'll be waiting.
Will do. I'm going to photograph anyway so I have a reference to put it back together. I'll start something like a vintage American lightweights thread. I bought this at a flee market in the late 70s. I guess it's about time I got around to fixing it

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Old 06-24-17, 08:42 PM
  #13105  
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen View Post
@Big Chief - I'm jealous. I'd love to take that apart. I hope you take some close up photos. I'll be waiting.
Absolutely, let's see some guts!

I've got a SRAM Automatix laying around waiting for a suitable project to appear. No, it's not English, and it's not a 3-speed, but it still seems like something this group would be interested in.

Like this, for instance:


Here's my English-ish light roadster on our ride this morning.

You all haven't seen this bike since the Lake Pepin 3-Speed Tour. I've been slowly improving it ever since. Now second gear feels just as solid as all the others. I just have to keep the adjustment within much tighter tolerances than with the AW. It helps that the cable is fully stretched now.

We visited
Señor Charles at the Taco House before they were open this morning:



Does this make it a "Track Bike"?



... and down the river we went, without a paddle:



It was a strange day, weather-wise. A cold front came through and reduced our temperature to about 55°F for awhile. I was in long-sleeves most of the day. This is really weird, when the Southwest is stuck in a triple-digit temperature nightmare. You folks have my sympathy...



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Old 06-24-17, 08:55 PM
  #13106  
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Originally Posted by SirMike1983 View Post
Really cool. I think Musselman made those. The inside may be a "sleeve" type brake. They made them with and without the fins over the years. Supposedly the fins aided in cooling by providing more surface area in the hub shell. I have no idea if that idea works.

https://www.timesofplenty.com/2015/img037.jpg

Some of the first truly modern "three-speed"-style bikes for adults made in the US were actually single speed coasters. I have a Westfield from well before WWII began for the US, with a New Departure Model D. It even has an add-on Philco English front brake.

In the late 1930s, several American companies copied the English Sports-style bikes to try to revive adult cycling in the US. This 1940 Westfield is part of the early effort in the US. This effort came to fruition about 1937-38 and was in full force by 1942. Many of these English-style American-made bikes became civilian transportation during the WWII gas rationing in the US. Over the past few years I've become somewhat passionate about trying to save these somewhat-forgotten (at least compared to the truly English-made three-speed) bikes.



Looks like mine is a down market version of this bike. I guess some effort was made to market these through Sears. I wish it had a 3 speed hub though. My old legs need a granny to get up hills these days.
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Old 06-25-17, 04:45 AM
  #13107  
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My advise would be to go with a lugged frame English 3 speed and if you're 5' 10" or taller, look for one with the taller, 23" frame.
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Old 06-25-17, 06:51 AM
  #13108  
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@DQRider - I'm not so familiar with the details of your bike, although I've read your posts about the Lake Pepin ride. It says "Raysport" on your bike and chain guard. I've never seen that bike before. Care to share a bit about the make? Original equipment?

On a different note, I'm going to see a bike today. Won't go into detail.....it may or may not be a 3-speed....keep you guessing.
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Old 06-25-17, 11:26 AM
  #13109  
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen View Post
@DQRider - I'm not so familiar with the details of your bike, although I've read your posts about the Lake Pepin ride. It says "Raysport" on your bike and chain guard. I've never seen that bike before. Care to share a bit about the make? Original equipment?
Only if you twist my arm. I know I've told this story on the BF before (more than once...), but it's a good story worth telling again. This will be a bit long...

In 2016 I rode my `74 Raleigh DL1 on the Lake Pepin 3-speed tour. I packed too much stuff, but was too proud to take advantage of the support van. So my rod-braked roadster weighed about 70-some pounds when we set off. I made it the whole 90 miles, but the Bay City Hill nearly killed me.

So for 2017 I decided to build my own "Ultimate Secret Wepin for Pepin". Essential qualities would be a lightweight Reynolds 531 frame, a Sturmey-Archer internal gear hub (5-speeds, but who's counting?), Brooks saddle, Northroads style handlebar, fenders, and chainguard - all alloy components, not steel.

I found a 531 mystery frame on CL and traded a nice `64 Dunelt step-through that my daughter had rejected as too "rickety". I dedicated a whole thread on the C&V forum to solving this mystery, but the answer came from a couple of local experts, members of the "Gentlemen Cyclists" group who put on the Lake Pepin event. Their names escape me at the moment, but they ID'ed my frame as a Raysport Turismo.

The only image I could find of this bike on the web is in somebody's collection, but I don't think I'm allowed to post the image here. You can find it with a Google search - the original Turismo bike was a lightweight, Italian-style drop-bar, sport-touring rig. The frameset came to me looking like this:



It has Campagnolo forged dropouts and Cinelli-style lugs, so you wouldn't think it would qualify as English in any way. However, while discussing it with my fellow Gentlemen Cyclists, it was revealed that the Raysport frames were built by a fellow named Ian Alsop, for the A1 Cycle Shop in Saint Louis, Missouri back in the early-mid 1970s.

Turns out Mr. Alsop was a member of the 1969 British Olympic Cycling Team in Mexico City, who fell in love with the place and opened a bike shop there after the Games. He was commissioned by the owner of A1 Cycles, one Raymond Florman, to build bespoke high-end bikes for their shop, branded with the name "Raysport".

The Gentlemen pointed out to me these elements of Englishness: Reynolds 531 tubing, built by a prominent British Olympic Cyclist, British hub, saddle, and handlebar - all of which qualify it for the Lake Pepin Tour. Hence the label "English-ish Light Roadster".

The build was undertaken over the long Minnesota winter, and it was a real education in bicycle mechanics. I soda-blasted the frame and fork, primed and painted them myself using pastel shades of Rust-Oleum and a lot of patience. I used classic Raleigh/Carlton graphics as a model for my decals and lettering. Components and hardware were sourced from IRD/Soma, Velo Orange, Harris Cyclery, and the like. The bike without fenders, racks, and bags weighed 24.5 lbs., and that was with the Brooks B67 saddle. Once it was all put together, it registered 36 lbs on my luggage scale. Packed (lightly this time) for the `Tour it was 44lbs, all-in. Quite an improvement over my DL1 behemoth.

The Lake Pepin Tour this year was a doddle, as the Brits say. This bike is fast and fun, though it feels quite a bit more delicate than my old Raleigh Roadster. But it was good entertainment watching people stare at the bike and seeing that cartoon question-mark pop over their heads. So this story was told many, many times over that weekend.

And the reason I feature it here in this thread is because it was built entirely "For The Love Of English 3-Speeds".

The End.
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Last edited by DQRider; 06-30-17 at 07:59 PM. Reason: Because Photobucket (pee-bucket) sucks! Go Imgur.
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Old 06-25-17, 01:44 PM
  #13110  
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@DQRider - Thank you. Wonderful restoration of an old classic. I like the backstory a lot.
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Old 06-25-17, 02:35 PM
  #13111  
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@DQRider It sure did turn into a beautiful bike. Building an upright roadster style on a 531 frame with quality components has been a daydream of mine for years. Your bike is downright inspirational!
VV's post was 3:44 PM EST Thats almost noon out there.. Still no clue about the secret new project. Hmmmm
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Old 06-26-17, 08:53 AM
  #13112  
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I haven't photo'd the "secret project" yet. We had a 100 degree weekend, which is extremely hot for us. I'm a native, so my personal operating temperature preference is around 65 degrees. I'll photo & post soon.
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Old 06-28-17, 11:25 PM
  #13113  
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen View Post
@Big Chief - I'm jealous. I'd love to take that apart. I hope you take some close up photos. I'll be waiting.
I'd like to see an exploded view of it as well.
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Old 06-29-17, 07:13 AM
  #13114  
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Originally Posted by BigChief View Post
@DQRider It sure did turn into a beautiful bike. Building an upright roadster style on a 531 frame with quality components has been a daydream of mine for years. Your bike is downright inspirational!
VV's post was 3:44 PM EST Thats almost noon out there.. Still no clue about the secret new project. Hmmmm
Hey BigChief, when you are ready to turn that daydream into reality, let me know. I can help you source all the parts you need, and avoid the ones that don't work so well.

Oddly enough, in the process of building this bike, I gained a new appreciation for what Raleigh and their competitors did with the old 3-speeds. They built bikes that last, and can be refreshed any number of times to keep them going for a lifetime. That "solid" feel of an English 3-speed isn't just an attribute of heavy tubing; it has to do with geometry and the inherent properties of steel components as opposed to alloy.

When the ABCE (All British Cycling Event) comes around this year, I will be astride my Raleigh DL1. There's nothing else that rides quite like it.

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Old 06-30-17, 07:54 PM
  #13115  
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
I recently built up this "three speed" -- it's actually a five speed, with the new wide range hub with drum brake.
<------->
Being 6' tall, and preferring short crank arms, I wanted a (too) big frame that I could put (too) small wheels on. So this is a 62 cm Lambert frame with 26" (MTB size) wheels. The small wheels necessitated drum brakes. It rides very nicely! I haven't weighed it.
Working my way through this thread, commenting as I go. This is a very nice bike, 5 speed and all.
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Old 07-02-17, 05:32 AM
  #13116  
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It's English and it's a 3-speed, so it qualifies for this thread. I rode a few of these in my shop days and found them to be very whippy, but it's an interesting concept and very unusual, and we all have spare SR Silstar cranks lying around to fix this one, right?.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/6200708208.html

Folding bike *needs repair* - $50 (Fan)



Hi,
This has a stripped pedal thread on the crank arm that needs to be repaired.

Can't beat the price!

Can meet at Wallgreens on 3520 Ellwood ave.

Thanks for looking.
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Old 07-02-17, 08:29 AM
  #13117  
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There was a Raleigh 5 speed step through in the local paper this week. Tempted to check it out, but we don't need it.
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Old 07-03-17, 05:18 AM
  #13118  
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Raleigh Glider Update

p1000408 (1).jpg
I may be done with this one for the time being. I still need to finesse a few things but overall it's together.

Costs to date:

Glider frame @ $20.00

Wheels from stock

New tires @ $38.00

New chain @ $15.00

New brake pads @ $12.00

New brake cable @ $6.00

New shifter cable @ $8.00

Can of paint @ $7.00

Front caliper and lever @ $5.00

Wrights saddle from stock

Supplies @ $5.00

TOTAL @ $116.00

I should probably add a number for the from stock parts but a lot of them are from salvaged bikes so it's hard to assign a fixed value.
p1000408 (1).jpg

p1000402.jpg

p1000403.jpg
As originally found.

p1000323.jpg

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Old 07-03-17, 05:27 AM
  #13119  
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1961 Raleigh Superbe Rat Bike

Spent the day riding this one around the city.

P1000405.jpg
One of the smoothest shifting hubs I've ridden.
Also picked up this Indian made Eastman leather saddle for a reasonable $40.00 (CDN)
[ATTACH][ATTACH]p1000397.jpg[/ATTACH][/ATTACH]
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File Type: jpg
p1000399.jpg (101.5 KB, 164 views)
File Type: jpg
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Old 07-03-17, 07:02 AM
  #13120  
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@gster Dang! You've got two scorchers going. Beautiful! I like the look of the plain black frame with no graphics on a stripped down scorcher. Looks all business.
When the right frame comes along, I'll catch up!
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Old 07-03-17, 09:17 AM
  #13121  
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@DQRider - yes, it's definitely on the right track to be a track bike!

Okay, so no photos of my "secret project" so I'll just tell you. I saw a pair of coffee colored R20's for sale on CL & said "$150"! I thought that was for both, so planned on buying both. When I spoke to the gentleman, he clarified and said $150/each. I went to see them same day. They were bought as a pair in the 1970's by grandma and grandpa and were mostly ridden around on camping trips and such, stored inside. All original, no rust, typical little paint blemishes you'd have from moving around in storage, etc.
I bought one and the hub is either 1971 or 1973. I've set it aside for now.....the shifter is gummy so I sprayed with Liquid Wrench, so better, but hub needs work. It's adjust d but only shifts into 2/3 gears.
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Old 07-03-17, 09:54 AM
  #13122  
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Originally Posted by BigChief View Post
@gster Dang! You've got two scorchers going. Beautiful! I like the look of the plain black frame with no graphics on a stripped down scorcher. Looks all business.
When the right frame comes along, I'll catch up!
Thanks BC. I'm having some problems with the hub on the black bike. May just be an adjustment or swap it out.
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Old 07-03-17, 12:20 PM
  #13123  
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen View Post
@DQRider - yes, it's definitely on the right track to be a track bike!

Okay, so no photos of my "secret project" so I'll just tell you. I saw a pair of coffee colored R20's for sale on CL & said "$150"! I thought that was for both, so planned on buying both. When I spoke to the gentleman, he clarified and said $150/each. I went to see them same day. They were bought as a pair in the 1970's by grandma and grandpa and were mostly ridden around on camping trips and such, stored inside. All original, no rust, typical little paint blemishes you'd have from moving around in storage, etc.
I bought one and the hub is either 1971 or 1973. I've set it aside for now.....the shifter is gummy so I sprayed with Liquid Wrench, so better, but hub needs work. It's adjust d but only shifts into 2/3 gears.
I figured it wasn't a Sports type 3 speed. They don't seem to appeal to you. Still think you might like a Colt. Especially if you modified it like you do with your 20s. I'm beginning to wonder about AW hubs from the 70s. The only trouble I've ever had with AWs were on the newer ones. The 72 on my fenderless roadster was stuck solid when I got it. Thought I might find rust inside, but no. It was clean except for the dried up grease in the bearings. It wasn't stuck when I took it apart. Looked normal. After that, it shifted, but not smoothly. The 55 hub on my scorcher shifts smooth as silk. Snick snick up and down where the roadster would slip down into 3rd smoothly but was crabby about lifting into 2nd. I did notice that the driver was cut very roughly on the 70s hub and the clutch plate had very sharp edges on the top. So I stoned the top edges of the clutch so they were smoother. It did help. The bike will reliably shift up into 2nd now, but it just doesn't have the smooth flawless action of the 55 AW.
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Old 07-03-17, 01:51 PM
  #13124  
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I'll upload some photos shortly, but now I want to RANT about the NEW SA 2-Speed Kickback Hub w/coaster brake. It was fine and dandy from the start. I came to a stop at my house using the coaster brake, got off the bike and started walking it when I noticed the rear wheel was "locked up" and would not move in any direction. I downloaded SA "Parts Diagram" for this particular hub and proceeded to disassemble and photo along the way since I am not familiar with it.

In case any of you don't know, I've taken apart sever AW 3's, G6's and AG 3's, and am very comfortable as to what I'm supposed to look for in the way of wear or breakage.

I took the 2-speed apart, put it back together ( about 4 times!!!) and now the bike rides in the 1:1 gear and stops using coaster, but won't "flick" shift to 2nd when I flick it backward. So......to say that I am frustrated at the moment is an understatement. I sent an email to Sturmey Archer, who is closed until July 13th.

Can any of you point me in the direction specifically for this hub and what internal parts make it shift into 2nd? I have checked EVERYTHING multiple times to make sure pawls are going the right way and seated, springs are lined up, etc.

UGH.

Spoke to Universal Cycles and in order to start a warranty process I have to unlace the hub and take it there. It's in Portland about a 12 mile drive. I wish I could just fix this one.

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Old 07-03-17, 02:11 PM
  #13125  
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