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Help Identifying this Basso

Old 09-18-13, 07:48 PM
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Paultso
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Help Identifying this Basso

Hi Folks,

Would appreciate your help identifying this Basso I just picked up. From my research, I've learned chromed chain stays and fork crowns were found on early 80's Bassos, and the GAP was made with SL...however the sticker on mine says superbutted..implying SLX?

Anyways, on to the pics












Any idea as to what I have on my hands? I did notice that on certain Gaps, the lug connecting the tt and st has a longer point on the st. The same lug point on mine seems a bit shorter.

PAINT: whats going on with this bubbling paint? Is it a more serious rush issue? Has the frame been compromised?

Thanks!
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Old 09-19-13, 06:53 AM
  #2  
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I don't know, but I can tell you my Gap has the same seat stay caps, same brake bridge, and I think the same fork crown. I don't remember the details of the lugs and BB but I think they are the same as yours. The brake cable treatment on mine is different, though, and it has an outrageous paint job that may suggest a slightly later date than yours. Anyway, the serial number on mine ends in 93, from which I conclude it is a 1993 model. I don't remember where I got the idea that the serial number reflects the date; it could be completely bogus. But right or wrong, I think the overall style of the bike is consistent with that date.

That said, check out this thread:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-serial-number

As for your paint, scary as those blisters are, I doubt the frame has been weakened, but I wouldn't store it outdoors. Too good to repaint, if that's what you were thinking.
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Old 09-19-13, 07:44 AM
  #3  
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From the code on the frame it is a 1984. I have a couple of 1984 Basso Gap frames (numbers 402153 and 405145) as verified from Basso. The first number corresponds to the year of manufacture in the 1980's. Also, somewhere around 1983-1984 the cable guides moved under the bottom bracket.

Both my frames are single bottle mounts and no pump peg as shown on yours.

Also, yours has a full chrome front fork whereas on mine and others I have seen only the unicrown and dropouts are chromed, the remainder of the fork painted to match the frame color.

Interestingly, there seems to be wild variations in the frames they churned out then. Some non-standard colors and frames. For instance, one of my frames is a non-standard metallic black and lighter than the other by a couple of ounces.

One of my bottom brackets (the heavier italian blue frame) is solid, whereas the metallic black one is slotted like yours. Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to find the bare frame weights at this time.

I'd disassemble the bike, TLC the bearings, and spray some frame saver inside the frame and fork to be safe.
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Old 09-19-13, 07:55 AM
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The tubing decal is much newer than the frame and it it's not SLX as per the decal, as the SLX tubed Loto model used fastback seat stays. This is either an Arrenacia or a Gap, circa 1984-1985, though it is most likely the latter. The definitive method to tell the difference is to examine the inside of the bottom of the fork's steerer column. A Gap with the full SL tubeset will have a Columbus steerer with 5 spiral ridges. The ridges are quite narrow and thin (3.5mm x 0.35mm) so you may require a good light (see attvhed pic). An Arrrenacia with tretubi SL will not have the Columbus steerer.

The frame is a prime candidate for a repaint. The bubbling is due to rust forming under the paint. Italian frames were notorious for their poor paint preparation and painting.

(1)

Edit: During this period the Arrenacia used identical geometry to the Gap and even used the embossed seat stay caps. Unfortunately, the literature does not indicate what dropouts were used, though we've seen Arrenacia with Campagnolo, Columbus and Basso branded rear dropouts. We've also seen them with fully chromed forks, so this is not necessarily a replacement fork. There's a definite possibility that it is an Arrenacia. Given the fork, it can't be considered a Gap.
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Old 09-19-13, 08:02 AM
  #5  
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Originally Posted by Ex Pres View Post
T-Mar, you'll be missed. Enjoyed your insights over the years.

But please, don't use up the last one responding to this.
What, are we supposed to stop at 10,000? Now you tell me?
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Old 09-19-13, 11:53 AM
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Thanks you guys for all of your input, the depth of knowledge on this board always amazes me!
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Old 09-19-13, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
The tubing decal is much newer than the frame and it it's not SLX as per the decal, as the SLX tubed Loto model used fastback seat stays. This is either an Arrenacia or a Gap, circa 1984-1985, though it is most likely the latter. The definitive method to tell the difference is to examine the inside of the bottom of the fork's steerer column. A Gap with the full SL tubeset will have a Columbus steerer with 5 spiral ridges. The ridges are quite narrow and thin (3.5mm x 0.35mm) so you may require a good light (see attvhed pic). An Arrrenacia with tretubi SL will not have the Columbus steerer.

The frame is a prime candidate for a repaint. The bubbling is due to rust forming under the paint. Italian frames were notorious for their poor paint preparation and painting.

(1)

No spirals = (. and fork ends say "Basso" not "columbus" or "campagnolo". However dropouts are campy so I'm thinking the fork is not original....makes sense since someone put a misleading Columbus sticker on it as well.

Could it be possible that I have a Arrencia? Is the geometry similar to the GAP?
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Old 09-19-13, 03:10 PM
  #8  
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Originally Posted by Paultso View Post
No spirals = (. and fork ends say "Basso" not "columbus" or "campagnolo". However dropouts are campy so I'm thinking the fork is not original....makes sense since someone put a misleading Columbus sticker on it as well.

Could it be possible that I have a Arrencia? Is the geometry similar to the GAP?

It is a 1984 and it looks like a Gap. It is likely the fork is a replacement since they are usually painted the same color as the frame and since the front and rear dropouts are matched by name. Does the fork have "B"on each side of the unicrown? If not, it should...

For whatever it is worth, one of my Gap's has Basso labeled dropouts and the other Campagnolo labeled droouts. The dropouts look exactly the same except for the naming convention stamped into them.
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Old 09-19-13, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by KS_rider View Post
It is a 1984 and it looks like a Gap. It is likely the fork is a replacement since they are usually painted the same color as the frame and since the front and rear dropouts are matched by name. Does the fork have "B"on each side of the unicrown? If not, it should...

For whatever it is worth, one of my Gap's has Basso labeled dropouts and the other Campagnolo labeled droouts. The dropouts look exactly the same except for the naming convention stamped into them.

Yup, B on both side of the unicrown. Thanks, for all of the help! now to find a wheelset!
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Old 10-01-13, 09:20 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpOGB4SkcM4
Originally Posted by rhm View Post
What, are we supposed to stop at 10,000? Now you tell me?
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Old 05-28-14, 11:40 PM
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This is definitely a 1984 variety of the GAP frame. I have a vintage Tretubi Basso I used for training 30 years ago. I also had a GAP frame Basso which I sold.

The serial number denotes the year it was built...first number indicates the year it was built (4=1984) as does mine. The derailleur cable stays under the BB are the same as my 1984 non-GAP frame. And the geometry is correct.

The dead give-away for the GAP frame is the chromed out stays and forks. The Tretubi version, even though it had the same geometry, did not have the chromed butt ends, chain/seat stays or forks. Basso varied wildy during this era, as one poster mentioned, but chrome on the chain-stay or fork butts,

is a dead giveaway.

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Old 05-29-14, 07:26 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
The tubing decal is much newer than the frame and it it's not SLX as per the decal, as the SLX tubed Loto model used fastback seat stays. This is either an Arrenacia or a Gap, circa 1984-1985, though it is most likely the latter. The definitive method to tell the difference is to examine the inside of the bottom of the fork's steerer column. A Gap with the full SL tubeset will have a Columbus steerer with 5 spiral ridges. The ridges are quite narrow and thin (3.5mm x 0.35mm) so you may require a good light (see attvhed pic). An Arrrenacia with tretubi SL will not have the Columbus steerer.

The frame is a prime candidate for a repaint. The bubbling is due to rust forming under the paint. Italian frames were notorious for their poor paint preparation and painting.

(1)

Edit: During this period the Arrenacia used identical geometry to the Gap and even used the embossed seat stay caps. Unfortunately, the literature does not indicate what dropouts were used, though we've seen Arrenacia with Campagnolo, Columbus and Basso branded rear dropouts. We've also seen them with fully chromed forks, so this is not necessarily a replacement fork. There's a definite possibility that it is an Arrenacia. Given the fork, it can't be considered a Gap.
I always thought that the "Super Butted" moniker always applied to SLX tubed frames, but I guess you are right, as the decal would have said "SLX". So what does Columbus really mean then when they say "Super Butted". I assume that it did not refer to the "rifling" in the tubes then? Did they have more than one butt per tube end? liike the Japanese "Quad butted" tubesets?
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Old 10-28-14, 11:50 PM
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T-mar - please go back to the benotto thread welding pipe or classic velo. Thx
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Old 10-29-14, 11:17 AM
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T-Mar has left the building, and we are all the poorer for it! We all wish he'd come back from retirement, but...
I am beating a dead horse (or ghost thread) but that Columbus decal on the Basso says (in very small white letters) "riverniciato" which means it already WAS repainted and probably not prepped well! The decal may be a little misleading only because it was the one the re-painter had on-hand, but whoever did the job was trying to be honest (about it being a re-painted frame) but didn't do a great job in the paint-prep area, or just didn't use the right paint for a cromovelato job...so don't go back there!

Last edited by unworthy1; 10-29-14 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 04-28-16, 06:43 AM
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I too need help identifying my Basso Ascot. Serial #ontheturntablerightnow the BB is 1002. It's Columbus MS. Full Campagnolo Chorus group. Wheels are Fike with Campy hubs. 3TTT cockpit. Size 51cm. Also, the BB is stamped Columbus.

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Old 01-15-21, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
T-Mar has left the building, and we are all the poorer for it! We all wish he'd come back from retirement, but...
I am beating a dead horse (or ghost thread) but that Columbus decal on the Basso says (in very small white letters) "riverniciato" which means it already WAS repainted and probably not prepped well! The decal may be a little misleading only because it was the one the re-painter had on-hand, but whoever did the job was trying to be honest (about it being a re-painted frame) but didn't do a great job in the paint-prep area, or just didn't use the right paint for a cromovelato job...so don't go back there!
Doing research on a couple 80s Basso Gaps (?) and could not determine where the repaint indication was on the Columbus decal. Why would Culombus make decals with "repainted" on them. Where is this decal example? I must see it; I would use it on a couple of my frames if available. Is this in reference to a bike in a different thread?
Confused and/or blind!
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Old 01-15-21, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by HPL View Post
Doing research on a couple 80s Basso Gaps (?) and could not determine where the repaint indication was on the Columbus decal. Why would Culombus make decals with "repainted" on them. Where is this decal example? I must see it; I would use it on a couple of my frames if available. Is this in reference to a bike in a different thread?
Confused and/or blind!
Firstly: note this thread dates back to 2013/2014 (and since then, Saints be praised, T-Mar has resumed posting to C&V!)
The line that indicates a "re-paint" is very faint in white text on light blue but between the line directly under the Columbus Dove and the bottom line see the 4th pic down from top in the OP's post with the dark red frame with best "full frontal" view of this decal. Other (earlier) versions of Columbus decals have the language in a diagonal stripe "violator" which is much more clear and legible.
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Old 01-15-21, 06:18 PM
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Thanks @unworthy1, I knew you were still chiming in so I figured I would give an old thread a kick in the butt. My eyes just are not that good, or my device is poor for viewing, I could barely make out some lettering, but I could not discern what it said. An odd coincidence; I am getting ready to build up a frame for someone and this "Gap" frame had the decals replaced (in my opinion, and possibly incorrect decals for the year) on the main tubes and head tube. Chainstay decals looked original comparatively. I had remembered that I had that same blue Columbus decal on that Basso, and I did not think it used "SLX" tubing (what that decal is "rinforzi elicoidali"), but "SL", "SP", or a mix of the two on larger frames (frame is 1983 frame, 64 cm).

I got that frame and the Columbus decal has the same "riverniciato"(repainted) text. I took a better photo for future reference. Now I believe that my frame has been repainted. Really will not matter to the recipient, but I would like to be honest with full disclosure regarding the frame's history as much as possible. Are these special decals that only (Italian) paint shops have? Very interesing to find out something about a bike I have had for some time.
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Old 05-04-21, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
I don't know, but I can tell you my Gap has the same seat stay caps, same brake bridge, and I think the same fork crown. I don't remember the details of the lugs and BB but I think they are the same as yours. The brake cable treatment on mine is different, though, and it has an outrageous paint job that may suggest a slightly later date than yours. Anyway, the serial number on mine ends in 93, from which I conclude it is a 1993 model. I don't remember where I got the idea that the serial number reflects the date; it could be completely bogus. But right or wrong, I think the overall style of the bike is consistent with that date.

That said, check out this thread:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-serial-number

As for your paint, scary as those blisters are, I doubt the frame has been weakened, but I wouldn't store it outdoors. Too good to repaint, if that's what you were thinking.
An old thread, I know, but would LOVE to know what your outrageous paint job is! By any chance, the Jamaican scheme? I am having my high school racing bike repainted to that as I type!!
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