path4

I don't think LBS sells MRSP. Normally they have something for sale and you can still negotiate. So, 20% off MRSP is not out of norm. Just don't be shy and ask. I priced a road with 105 at BD and performance bike. Their prices are similar but performance gives you 20% towards future purchase. So, BD doesn't really give you much for the low and medium. Maybe BD offers more for high end bikes.

noglider 

Let me aks you something, because I don't know the answer. Can you buy a bike that is better equipped (or equivalently equipped) and is the same as or better quality than a bike shop bike? If so, I would recommend these. My sample size of bikesdirect bikes is about four, and they were low-to-mid-level bikes. I haven't seen the high end ones. The ones I saw did not offer an unusual value in any way.

mcrow

IDK, sometimes you can find a last year's model at the LBS that is 20% off, but they go very fast and even then you are still paying more than 20% than the BD version if you factor in tax.

Pefromance is about the LBS (though they are a big chain that sells online as well) that gets close. Comparing styles of bikes and components, Performance Bike is closer.

I've been shopping for a comfort hybrid (to ease some back isses I have that get aggrivated by riding a roadie)I found the Jubilee Sport on BD for $349. I wanted something I could sit more straight, that could ride decent on gravel/crushed stone. Comparing that to Performance, the closest bike to that was the Schwin Sierra 1 which is going for $450, so while closer it is still $100 more and has lesser components. If you buy it in the shop you pay tax in most places and that could add another $30 or so and if you ship the bike you have to pay that cost.

So, for this comparison there really isn't a comparison. You could find something closer in price that has narrower tires and things like that but it comes down to taxes and ther right sort of bike. I think even if I took something not quite what I was looking for it would still be a little higher price when adding in shipping or tax. Yeah, you might be able to negotiate but no bike shop is going to be giving you $75-$100 on a $450 bike.

That's not to say I don't buy from an LBS, I have bought probably 30 bikes in my life and all but 4 of them new from an LBS. I have several times paid a little extra due to loyalty my LBS or for the extras they throw in.

Steely Dan

rebooting this thread has been very helpful. it reminded me of how much i love my BD.com road bike, and of how much i've really wanted to get a disc brake CX bike to turn into my ultimate all-weather commuter bike.

so this afternoon i pulled the trigger and got a 2014 Motobecame Fantom Cross Disc from BD.com. it should be shipped to me sometime next week.

it looks like a pretty solid bike with decent specs (SRAM apex drivetrain, Avid disc brakes, FSA crank & headset, Alex rims), and at only $900, i won't be too heartbroken if it ever gets stolen. slap on some new tires, pedals, fenders, a rack, and lights and I'll be good to go!

mcrow

Nice bike!

dynaryder

First,if you can work on your own bike,then you're not getting extra value. But many people don't have the skills/knowledge to properly assemble a bike. Second,with LBS bikes,you can sit on them and test ride them to determine how they fit and ride. You can't do that with BD bikes. Lastly,LBS bikes are ready to go when you pick them up. BD bikes need to be assembled,and sometimes they get damaged in shipping. That's alot of hassle you don't have to deal with when buying an LBS bike.

BD bikes are great for seasoned riders who know how bikes fit them and do their own wrenching. But most noobs will benefit from getting at least their first bike from a shop.

Oh yeah,look at their Ti line. My Ti cross bike was very nice;I'd say it would cost much more at a shop,but there aren't any shops that sell off-the-rack Ti bikes. They're all at least semi-custom. There's a thread about what's a poor man's Rivendell;BD is a poor man's Moots.

mcrow

I agree with you there 100%. If you don't know youre way around a bike with a wrench, then maybe it's not a good idea. If you're not sure which frame geometry +size works for you, it isn't a good idea. It's defintely better for more experienced people. I guess for me, I have been tearing apart and re-assembling bikes since I was 12 (so about 25 years) so simple adjustments are not given a second though. I have often had to do them to LBS bikes I've purchases as well but generally speaking they come pretty much ready to go.

Like you said, if you are a complete newbie to bikes or working wrench then you're better off with a LBS bike because it might end up costing you the same after hiring a LBS to fix your bike after you mess up setting up on your own.

GeneO 

I did not like their cross frames. They are not butted and my downtube was paper thin where it meets the cranks. I do not feel I can trust the frame. The stem was so poor quality it flexed, so I had to replace Before that I didn't think a stem could flex.

noglider 

Comparing specs of two bikes doesn't give you the whole picture. You can't compare the quality of a bike you see in person with that of a bike you see on the interwebs.

mconlonx

We are in agreement. Just saying it different ways.

mconlonx

If you come into our shop and ask for a 20% discount on a current model year bike, or a non-current bike already marked down, we will politely tell you, "No." We would, however, be more than happy to build and tune your BD or Performance bike at regular build/tune pricing for the service.

megalowmatt

Go for it. I don't think you can go wrong.

Here's mine...

Steely Dan

what BD.com cross bike did you purchase?





here's the description of the frame of the CX bike i just purchased from BD.com:

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Main Frame[/TD]
[TD]Vari-Butted Aluminum Geometrically Enhanced tubing, Integrated HeadTube, 2xH2O bottle mounts (brazeons) Headtube L: 49/52/54/56/58/61CM = 95/105/115/115/135/165mm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rear Triangle[/TD]
[TD]DISC BRAKE READY, Vari-Butted Aluminum Geometrically Enhanced tubing with S-bend seatstays, replaceable derailleur hanger, Fender mounts, REAR RACK BRAZE-ONS (DISC BRAKE MOUNTS, Cantilever brake tabs, 130mm rear spacing)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

it pretty clearly spells out that the tubes of the frame are butted. i have a BD.com titanium frame road bike and i have been extremely impressed with the frame on that bike (as i said earlier, it's my favorite in my stable), so i'm not too worried about the quality of the frame on my new BD.com bike. it is at a lower price point than my road bike, so i would expect that the frame might not be as great as the Ti frame on my road bike, but i still have confidence that BD.com is not going to put an un-butted crap frame into a $900 complete bike package. now, at that low of a price, i'm not expecting anything magical either, but i think it'll be a good enough, solid enough frame to serve as an all-weather commuter/running around town bike.




stems are very easily replaced. if i end up with a flexy stem on my new CX bike, i'll just switch it out with one of the other stems i have lying around in my spare parts bin.

TrikeRider1961

I've bought two bikes from Bikes Direct. A Dawes for my wife and a Windsor for myself. Both were delivered promptly and undamaged. I assembled them using the provided instructions, and then took them to my LBS for tuning as I was unable to get the derailluers set to my satisfaction. I saved myself several hundred dollars, and was completely satisfied with BD.
I also maintained good relations with my LBS by offering him the opportunity to compete for the sales by taking him the bike and components list before I bought. Plus he continues to get all my wrench business.

thank you

noglider 

That's because margin on bikes is so low. Customers have no idea how low it is. I remember long ago, working at a bike shop, a customer said he would wait until the off-season and come back and buy at half price. Ain't gonna happen. They're not like clothing; there is no such margin built in that allows deep discounts.

Let me explain a bit. There are some things that you can't compare because
- you can't see the product until after you've bought,
- they don't want to tell you the difference, and
- spec sheets don't specify and couldn't even quantify the difference if they wanted to.

The things you cannot compare:
- quality of workmanship on the frame, e.g. welds. This can't be changed after purchase.
- quality of the little bits of hardware holding things together, such as seat binder bolt. When there are a dozen crappy bolts that ought to have good quality bolts, the end result is a pretty crappy bike.
- quality of the low-level assembly. For example, are the BB and headset pressed in at proper parallel and perpendicular angles? This can be attended to and fixed, but it often isn't, and the longer you ride a bike before correcting them, the more trouble you have later.

When I got my Nashbar no-name fixie bike, the headset needed adjustment and so did the hub cones. Lots of bikes come from the factory with some or all of the four main bearings (two hubs, BB, and headset) much too tight. Some bike shops correct this as a matter of course before handing a new bike to a customer. There is no guarantee that a bike shop will do this, but there is almost a guarantee that a mail order bike will not be done right here.

Often:
- brake levers are put in the wrong position,
- cables are too long,
- brake shoes are not aligned to the rims, and
- a dozen other details are wrong.

If you trust that your bike needs attention as soon as you receive it in the mail, and if you bring it in right away, or if you take care of all the details yourself, you can do well, as I did with my Nashbar fixie. Most people don't do any of this. Some people have some of the stuff taken care of, but not all.

I'm not entirely against the concept, but the savings just isn't what it appears to be. Knowledge is wealth, and not everyone knows what needs to be known to make an informed decision.

noglider 

As for titanium, there isn't a lot of knowledge about titanium because of the expenses of the raw material and the labor required. There is debate as to whether it makes any sense to use butted tubing. It might be that the cost is great and the benefit is small. It might also be that the extent of butting is too small to make a difference. So when I see a straight gauge titanium frame, I don't poopoo it as lesser than a butted titanium frame.

cyccommute 

It goes a bit further than than. I will say that I've now bought 3 bikes from BD, to my shame. Two of them have been Terry Symmetrys which BD had on clearance. One of those is for home and the other is to leave at a daughter's house in Arizona. I don't have a problem with the Terrys as the bikes were spec'd by Terry and have good stuff on them. The one for home, after complete parts swapping is down to 20 lbs and is a sweet little bike. The other one is slightly heavier but is still a pretty good bike.

The problem I had with the BD bike was the one I bought for me. I got a Windsor as a parts donor for a frame I purchased from Dean in Boulder. I have to say that once I got the bike and started taking it apart, I was very disappointed. The steer tube on the fork was steel with carbon blades. It was a boat anchor but a fancy boat anchor. The brakes were poor and I didn't use them. The wheels were Vuelta and serviceable but heavy. They were 20 spoke wheels that I replaced with 32 hole White Industry/Pilar spokes/Velocity A-23 and dropped 2 lbs. The "carbon" post was a wrapped aluminum post that was only "carbon" cosmetically. The stem was too short for the frame and the shape of the handlebars was just horrible (not really BD's fault but still...).

The real kicker was that the cups for the bottom bracket were so tight that I had to destroy them to remove them which made them too unsightly for my Dean (vanity is a evil mistress). The crank was a FSA but I couldn't find replacement cups locally.

I used the rear derailers, the shifters and the wheels. I couldn't use the fork because it didn't fit (not BD's fault). That's about $400 (retail) of parts that I paid $900 for and I ultimately ditched the wheels. I did reassemble the bike and donated to a local co-op so I got a little tax benefit from the bike but certainly not what I paid for it.

Now, I haven't bought a complete bike since 2003 except the BD bike but if I want another donor bike, I'll go to a shop and buy one that I can really look at.

noglider 

@cyccommute, that's extremely disappointing! I've been tempted to buy a BD bike also as a parts donor. Now I know I won't.

-=(8)=-

A lot of Bikesdirect bikes are Fujis and KHS. The frames don't become 2nd rate just because Motobecane or Mercier decals are put on them instead of Fuji.
My Son and I have a few between us and the only problem I ever had was shipping damage. If you dont care about the religion of tithing to your "LBS",
they are the best deals going, per dollar, most of the time.

lostarchitect 

To be frank, it is not the smartest thing to buy a $900 parts donor bike without knowing what all the parts are. Sounds like he made a mistake there.

I had a single speed Mercier bike from BD and I was pretty impressed with it for what I paid.

Chitown_Mike

I almost went the bikes direct route (or their seconds and blem site bikeisland.com) for my last 2 bikes but after weighing the options against a local shop, I went with the shop. I know I "spent" more and didn't get the higher end components, but I do have 2 brand new bikes (a Trek 1.5 and 3500 disc), a 3 year warranty on both, and I spent about $1400 on both bikes over the course of a month.

A next purchase will be a BD bike, or Fezzari (another online/mail order bike company that has some great looking stuff). Why? Because I know what fits me, and in a few years I'll know where I am as a cyclist and what will benefit me, but for now I wanted a designated commuter I can beat on and not have to worry about parts, as well as a back/fun bike I can do the same to, and I have that.

BD and similar business models have their place, and I believe it creates better competition, but I wouldn't throw a LBS away just because of cost. I have a great relationship with mine and have spent a few hundred outside of the bikes on stuff from them as well. I'd rather have a friendly smile walking in because they treat me well and I treat them to my hard earned monies.

noglider 

I remember that bike. You did well with it. I'm not against the company or the concept entirely. I'm just annoyed that people are often not informed enough to know the difference between an online bike and a bike-shop bike. I was working as a mechanic in a local bike shop last month. Customers came in with their $200 pieces of doo-doo and proclaiming how well they did. Meanwhile, their bikes were in terrible shape, some salvageable, some not.

It's a fair point you make about @cyccommute's story.

noglider 

Claiming that some of us are religious about this is, in and of itself, religious. It's also inaccurate.

I've cited enough cases of not-the-best-deal to show that your assertion is not true.

JBC353

My one BD transaction was a success. The bike was pretty much as described and expected and best of all there was zero shipping damage. Nearly everything on the bike needed adjusting though, so definitely not the way for noobs unless they have a competent LBS. My experience is that is actually fairly rare.

treadtread

I have an LBS bought bike, and wouldn't have done it otherwise for a first bike. However, to be fair, a new rider cannot understand the quality of a bike even when he/she sees it in person.