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Growing pain for e-bikes.

Old 08-04-23, 02:38 PM
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This dates back to the 50's:

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Old 08-06-23, 06:22 AM
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Maybe these characters will get the spotlight off of eBikes..,

Unicide Squad:

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Old 08-06-23, 06:56 AM
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The male reporter called them "ecu's",... They're called EUC's". I would know, since I used to own one. 🤣 I love em,...
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Old 08-06-23, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by cat0020
California wants to create a driverís license for electric bikes

https://electrek.co/2023/07/22/calif...lectric-bikes/
To be fair that is only for people who don't have an automobile driver's license. they want people who have never driven a vehicle to have some idea of the rules of the road. Not really an "ebike license".

I'm not sure how I feel about that. I can see arguments on both sides.

Problem with a lot of laws like this is inconsistent enforcement leading to charges of racism/profiling. Good chance Ebike licenses will create more troubles than solutions. Ideally parents monitor their kids, gradually giving them more freedoms as they demonstrate responsibility. Sort of like telling your kids don't leave the neighborhood. Hard to legislate that.

IMO one huge issue is distinguishing low power ebikes from electric motorcycles. Headlines almost never make the distinction. Even on this sight people throw around the "class" of ebike like it is some standard metric. Only a few states adopted the "class" standard.

IMO low power ebikes, like defined in HR 727, are nothing but a good thing. If electric motorcycles keep getting thrown into the same category as low power ebikes we risk unnecessarily restricting the good bikes.
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Old 08-07-23, 06:39 AM
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Here's H.R. 727 - I personally feel the speed limit should be upped to a minimum of 20 MPH, for safety reasons.

Text: H.R.727 — 107th Congress (2001-2002)All Information (Except Text)

ListenThere are 6 versions:
Public Law (12/04/2002) Enrolled Bill Referred in Senate (03/07/2001) Engrossed in House (03/06/2001) Reported in House (03/05/2001) Introduced in House (02/27/2001)

Text available as:

Shown Here:
Statute at Large 116 Stat. 1757 - Public Law No. 107-319 (12/04/2002)

[107th Congress Public Law 319]
[From the U.S. Government Printing Office]


<DOC>
[DOCID: fubl319.107]


[[Page 116 STAT. 2776]]

Public Law 107-319
107th Congress

An Act



To amend the Consumer Product Safety Act to provide that low-speed
electric bicycles are consumer products subject to such
Act. <<NOTE: Dec. 4, 2002 - [H.R. 727]>>

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the
United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. CONSUMER PRODUCT SAFETY ACT.

The Consumer Product Safety Act (15 U.S.C. 2051 et seq.) is amended
by adding at the end the following:

``low-speed electric bicycles

``Sec. 38. <<NOTE: 15 USC 2085.>> (a) Notwithstanding any other
provision of law, low-speed electric bicycles are consumer products
within the meaning of section 3(a)(1) and shall be subject to the
Commission regulations published at section 1500.18(a)(12) and part 1512
of title 16, Code of Federal Regulations.

``(b) For the purpose of this section, the term `low-speed electric
bicycle' means a two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable
pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose
maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a
motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20
mph.
``(c) To further protect the safety of consumers who ride low-speed
electric bicycles, the Commission may promulgate new or amended
requirements applicable to such vehicles as necessary and appropriate.
``(d) This section shall supersede any State law or requirement with
respect to low-speed electric bicycles to the extent that such State law
or requirement is more stringent than the Federal law or requirements
referred to in subsection (a).''.

SEC. 2. MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS. <<NOTE: 49 USC 30102 note.>>

For purposes of motor vehicle safety standards issued and enforced
pursuant to chapter 301 of title 49, United States Code,


[[Page 116 STAT. 2777]]

a low-speed electric bicycle (as defined in section 38(b) of the
Consumer Product Safety Act) shall not be considered a motor vehicle as
defined by section 30102(6) of title 49, United States Code.

Approved December 4, 2002.

LEGISLATIVE HISTORY--H.R. 727:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

HOUSE REPORTS: No. 107-5 (Comm. on Energy and Commerce).
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD:
Vol. 147 (2001):
Mar. 6, considered and passed House.
Vol. 148 (2002):
Nov. 18, considered and passed
Senate.

<all>
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Old 08-07-23, 08:57 AM
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In socal there's a group that ride their EUC's off road, and looks like mad skills to me. That reporter had a skirt so short it seemed she was the most dangerous one (sorry for getting off track).

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Old 08-30-23, 07:57 AM
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Why more teenagers should ride electric bikes

https://electrek.co/2023/08/30/why-m...lectric-bikes/
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Old 09-06-23, 10:26 PM
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We accomplished that with regular bikes when I was a teen. But we likely would have ridden ebikes if they existed (and were affordable).
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Old 10-03-23, 01:31 PM
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Taking a motorcycle license exam on an electric bike could soon be possible

https://electrek.co/2023/10/03/takin...electric-bike/
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Old 10-03-23, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
When you run into problems on such paths, you're riding too fast for the conditions.

Repeating myself, for all the good it will do:

The problem is not pedestrians - the problem is the difference in speed between bikes and pedestrians. If you guys happened to be pedestrians and no bike riders, you'd be whining about those damn bike riders that are causing all the problems. And you'd be right.

And people posting here: please stop calling them "bike paths." They're multi-use paths.
As someone who rides a normal bike on a bike trail system all the time, I ALWAYS slow down to a very low speed when nearing pedestrians. It absolutely is the cyclistís fault if they hit a pedestrian, because if you are going a speed where a sudden kid running in from if you does not afford you the opportunity to stop or maneuver away (of if an accident does occur - the accident will not cause anything more than a minor injury).


I see basically full throttle e-bikes on the paths now going over 35 MPH on the bike paths. Iím sorry. That is ******** deranged and dangerous.

Like I say about anyone riding aero bars on a bike path, if your prerogative is to go fast, then you should NOT be on a bike path.

We are now seeing actual motor cycles on bike paths now, because whatís the difference between a full throttle e-bike and a gas powered motor cycle?
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Old 10-08-23, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert C
I teach at a middle school and what passes for "education" in "traffic safety & laws" is not what you want. The kids are taught to ride on the sidewalks, opposed to traffic. If no sidewalk is available, they are to ride facing traffic in the gutter portion of the street. Yes, this leads to the kids popping in and out of the street as they move around parked cars.

In my opinion, it is incredibly unsafe, but it is what they are taught to do.
I live in Minnesota. Salmoning like that is explicitly against the law. And, whatever moron is teaching that failed to do the most basic research because it is a LOT more dangerous. I'd bet salmoning is illegal in your state too.

Originally Posted by cat0020
E-bikes (among other EVs) causing trouble in community (besides NYC)


Encinitas City Council declares emergency for e-bikes, bicycles:


https://www.kpbs.org/news/public-saf...bikes-bicycles
Thanks for this article. I was wondering when this sort of stuff would start appearing. My observations is that so many e-bike riders are complete noobs and the bike can easily go far faster than their bike handling skills can handle. I'm glad that more people are out on a bike but they seem to eschew helmets and most cycling common sense besides not knowing what they don't know.
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Old 10-11-23, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets
I think the US needs more emphasis on safe cycling education, and eBikes/scooters definitely need to be included also.
I agree. This is somewhat analogous to the number of railway crossing accidents in the US. Many other countries, with millions more miles of railway, have significantly far less accidents.
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Old 10-13-23, 10:24 AM
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It’s official: E-bikes are actually bikes, not ‘motor vehicles,’ according to new EU rules

https://electrek.co/2023/10/13/its-o...-new-eu-rules/
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Old 10-13-23, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by cat0020
Itís official: SOME E-bikes are actually bikes, not Ďmotor vehicles,í according to new EU rules

https://electrek.co/2023/10/13/its-o...-new-eu-rules/
FIFY

"Of course EU regulations, contrary to the US, limit pedal-assist bikes to a maximum continuous rated power of no more than 250 W and a speed to 25 km/h before cutting out power, leaving you to rely your legs for more speed."

So, about 2% of the e-bikes sold are still bicycles.

Many Esnobs turn their noses up at anything less than 1000w
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Old 10-14-23, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by cat0020
Itís official: E-bikes are actually bikes, not Ďmotor vehicles,í according to new EU rules

https://electrek.co/2023/10/13/its-o...-new-eu-rules/
Good news.

But I do think Class 2 e-bikes should be treated exactly the same as mopeds and are not bicycles.
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Old 10-14-23, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by cat0020
Itís official: E-bikes are actually bikes, not Ďmotor vehicles,í according to new EU rules

https://electrek.co/2023/10/13/its-o...-new-eu-rules/
Excellent. It seems as long as you have pedals that work and legal power and speed limitations you will be considered a bicycle. I would hate to see motorized bicycles classified as motor vehicles.
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Old 10-14-23, 10:21 PM
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Our ideas as individuals are important --- to us ---. However state law trumps my or anybody's opinion, and the "Class" system rules the roost in CA and more than half the other states. Personally, I think it's perfect.
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Old 10-15-23, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by dayco
Excellent. It seems as long as you have pedals that work and legal power and speed limitations you will be considered a bicycle. I would hate to see motorized bicycles classified as motor vehicles.
Assuming the sector grows, and it will given the entire fleet is going to be electrified, categorization will adapt as new product niches are developed.

As a handy example, motorcycles compared to motor-driven cycles (your Vespas and such). Both need to be licensed, both can operate in traffic the same as any motor vehicle, but motor-driven scooters can't go on highways and freeways (the question of why anybody would want to can be considered separately). A motorcycle license is required and you need to be at least sixteen.

Electrics already exist in both categories, including some pretty big motorcycles.
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Old 11-21-23, 09:07 AM
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The two biggest problems with electric bikes aren’t even about e-bikes



https://electrek.co/2023/11/21/the-t...about-e-bikes/

Notice that battery fire isn’t included as biggest problem.
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Old 11-30-23, 03:21 AM
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In our city, pedestrians are allowed on all bicycle trails. There are some trails where bicycles are not allowed. All trails that allow bicycles also allow electric bikes also. Only on some trails/paths they have a line that separated pedestrians from bicyclists.

So far things are working reasonably well.
Since electric bikes are very heavy compared to a regular bike, and they often go much faster, itís a given that if they hit a pedestrian, itís more likely that the pedestrian might get injured. There have been few times when I had to quickly get out of the way of two e-bikers going side-by-side, chatting with each other. Iím sure that if the one who passed me missing me by some inches, had run into me and my sub-20lb bike, my bike and I would not be unharmed.
Given the mixed group of people using these trails/paths, I think that it is a good idea to restrict the e-bike speed to perhaps 20 MPH.
Iím not convinced about the local ot state government fanning fear and starting to mandate licenses etc. [We pay an annual fee to use many trails in the state. Some trails are free for use. Roads require no fee from bicyclists. If a bicyclist is stopped on trail without having purchased yearly license, the police may fine him.]
Ours is relatively small city. I can understand the situation in New York is different, much more traffic, far more chaos. Years ago, I remember watching bicyclists go in and out of lanes driving in between cars - very irresponsibly and menacingly to pedestrians crossing streets. In very high population density, everything becomes much worse. The e-bike is just a new addition. I think that with time, the current ďexplosionĒ of battery operated transportation will be managed as everyone gets accustomed to them and understand the new norms, hopefully without taxing and levying fines for everything.
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Old 11-30-23, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan K
In our city, pedestrians are allowed on all bicycle trails. There are some trails where bicycles are not allowed. All trails that allow bicycles also allow electric bikes also. Only on some trails/paths they have a line that separated pedestrians from bicyclists.

So far things are working reasonably well.
Since electric bikes are very heavy compared to a regular bike, and they often go much faster, itís a given that if they hit a pedestrian, itís more likely that the pedestrian might get injured. There have been few times when I had to quickly get out of the way of two e-bikers going side-by-side, chatting with each other. Iím sure that if the one who passed me missing me by some inches, had run into me and my sub-20lb bike, my bike and I would not be unharmed.
Given the mixed group of people using these trails/paths, I think that it is a good idea to restrict the e-bike speed to perhaps 20 MPH.
Iím not convinced about the local ot state government fanning fear and starting to mandate licenses etc. [We pay an annual fee to use many trails in the state. Some trails are free for use. Roads require no fee from bicyclists. If a bicyclist is stopped on trail without having purchased yearly license, the police may fine him.]
Ours is relatively small city. I can understand the situation in New York is different, much more traffic, far more chaos. Years ago, I remember watching bicyclists go in and out of lanes driving in between cars - very irresponsibly and menacingly to pedestrians crossing streets. In very high population density, everything becomes much worse. The e-bike is just a new addition. I think that with time, the current ďexplosionĒ of battery operated transportation will be managed as everyone gets accustomed to them and understand the new norms, hopefully without taxing and levying fines for everything.
Interesting. What city & state do you live in? You may want to look more deeply into your state and local laws. I learned a lot by reading up on mine here in Kenosha, WI.

There doesn't seem to be local laws relating to eBikes, but the state law is pretty robust and clear:

WI State Laws:
  • Class 1 and 2 eBikes are allowed anywhere an mBike is.
  • Class 3 eBikes are allowed on streets and in bike lanes on the streets, but not on MUPs or sidewalks.
  • Any Class 1-3 eBike or moped can park at a bike rack
Kenosha County Laws: (LINK)
  • Any class of eBike is allowed on a paved pathway or multi-use trail
  • Class 1 eMTBs are allowed on purpose-built mountain bike trails
  • Both cases above are limited to the marked speed limit or 20 mph.
  • There are no City of Kenosha-specific eBike laws yet.
There are other areas with special rules, for example the Eleroy Sparta rail trail (the 1st in the country!) says any eBike is allowed, but with a 15 mph speed limit. I think that's a smart way to do it. I'm sure they have a cop every now and then running radar or responding to complaints. Most of these "special trails" in WI have a 15 mph speed limit.

I bet if you look, your state has a similar set up.
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Old 11-30-23, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Smaug1
Interesting. What city & state do you live in? You may want to look more deeply into your state and local laws. I learned a lot by reading up on mine here in Kenosha, WI.

There doesn't seem to be local laws relating to eBikes, but the state law is pretty robust and clear:

WI State Laws:
  • Class 1 and 2 eBikes are allowed anywhere an mBike is.
  • Class 3 eBikes are allowed on streets and in bike lanes on the streets, but not on MUPs or sidewalks.
  • Any Class 1-3 eBike or moped can park at a bike rack
Kenosha County Laws: (LINK)
  • Any class of eBike is allowed on a paved pathway or multi-use trail
  • Class 1 eMTBs are allowed on purpose-built mountain bike trails
  • Both cases above are limited to the marked speed limit or 20 mph.
  • There are no City of Kenosha-specific eBike laws yet.
There are other areas with special rules, for example the Eleroy Sparta rail trail (the 1st in the country!) says any eBike is allowed, but with a 15 mph speed limit. I think that's a smart way to do it. I'm sure they have a cop every now and then running radar or responding to complaints. Most of these "special trails" in WI have a 15 mph speed limit.

I bet if you look, your state has a similar set up.
You are correct, rules are not different. I think this is a process in motion and gradually, it will settle to a more uniform standards nationwide.
Next thing is implementation of these rules. My guess is unless someone gets in a serious enough accident where medical help (and police) has to get involved, the local police isnít going around checking whether or not you have a class 2 or class 3 e-bike, or you have altered the speed limiter yourself. I expect, all of it to get sorted out in time.
In China e-bikes and electric scooters became a serious problem according to the CCP so they took action in their usual way - make it illegal abruptly and confiscate their private property to trash it. Evidently, people devised their solution by using motorized wheel chairs, normally used by mobility challenged people. And now you see younger people going to work buzzing around on streets in their wheel chairs - it is very interesting, we shall see how long before wheelchairs get confiscated. 🤪
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Old 12-03-23, 05:03 AM
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Good points here about lack of compatability between and within brands.

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