I think they most probably never tested and validated their design.

Nobody knows how this bike behaves nor if its reliable.

I would never put $3000 in such a clone.

What benefit do you expect from this clone compared to a real Birdy that cost less money?

If someone's riding the Touring with a hybrid Sturmey-Archer CS-RK3 hub… can you see what they used as a cable/housing stop in the frame?

There is an opening under the right chain stay for the cable of the SA or Dual Drive (R&M had a Birdy with a Dual Drive when it was still available).

And there is a second hole in the main frame on the right side as for th derailleur cable+housing.

There must be a cable housing stop inside of the chain stay like for the derailleur cable+housing.

Yup, so I guess they inserted a custom-made housing stop on the Touring. The shape of the frame prevents using standard stops, whether from S-A or other mfg's (Origin8, Problem Solvers, Rivbike, etc.)

Let's see if PC replies to my email for help on getting one..

--
Edit: I forgot about S-A's very own "Axle Fulcrum Lever with Washer - HSJ905" :-)

I looked at the picture of the PC Birdy Touring on their website and the two cables+housing going into the rear swing arm and then out of the swing arm into the min frame are clearly visible.

Yes, and it doesn't show what their housing stop looks like inside the frame.

If PC doesn't reply, I'll go for the less elegant and probably heavier S-A add-on.

Or maybe one those from Nitto:

Or maybe just bend and drill a plain steel bracket #diy :

I have already dismounted the rear derailleur cable+housing.

The housing is a standard one made of two pieces:
- One that goes from the derailleur inside of the rear swing arm with at both extremities standard housing cap.
- A second one that stars inside of the front part of the swing arm and pass inside of the main frame to the shifter on the handlebar. The first part of the housing is made of a kind of spring to avoid it to bend when unfolding the rear swing arm. Such a spring doesn't exist on my Pacific Cycles Titanium Birdy, its a standard housing.

So it looks like…
1. The deraileur cable housing is pushed through the upper part of the frame
2. The CS-RK3 cable goes straight to the "noodle"-type flexible housing through the lower part of the frame, so no housing stop is required there

Well, they make the Rhine bike, a copy of the Gen 3 Birdy. What do I get? Disc brakes, 20-inch tires, and a titanium frame.
They also allow me to make modifications like internal cable routing and things like that. So my question is, considering their model, what modifications would they make?
How much would it cost to buy a secondhand titanium Birdy, if you can get one?

Their bike cost more than a Pacific Cycles Birdy R with also 20" wheels, disc brakes, internal cable routing...

as far as i know, Rhine doesn't make a copy of the Birdy 3 but of the Birdy 2 monocoque that has a different frame geometry than the Birdy 3.

The pictures are very small, its difficult to see how this bike is made.

But what I can suggest:
- First put the mounting point for the Birdy folding rear rack (they should be placed at the right place to allow the rack to fold when the rear frame is folded). The bike of the picture doesn't allow the mounting of this rack.
- Use an asymmetric main tube to minimize the folded size like Pacific Cycles did on the real gen 3 Titanium Birdy.
- Make a rear frame and fork that accept 50mm wide ETRTO406 tires ( it not possible with the real Birdy frame, the max tire width is 32 to 35mm depending of the tire type).

One more remark: building a titanium frame is very different from building an aluminum frame, soldering must be done in inert gas to avoid any oxygen contamination that would make the soldering corrode and break after some time.

I have no idea of the used price of the very limited series gen3 titanium Birdy. Its price was 6500USD without import taxes and without shipment (its the price I paid buying it directly from Pacific Cycles). There was one for sale on the forum (located in the US), as far as I know it wasn't sold.

Pacific Cycles' shipping prices are almost double the retail price, from what I've seen.
Thank you very much for your comments; they're very helpful.
I'm attaching the plans they sent me.



maybe is useful for someone else

Riese & Müller Ends the "Birdy" Saga

Riese & Müller is retiring the "Birdy." The non-motorized folding bike will be discontinued for the 2026 model year. The German bicycle manufacturer plans to focus entirely on e-bikes in the future.

The news first circulated as a rumor among Riese & Müller dealers, but now it's confirmed: The original model in the German bicycle manufacturer's success story will be discontinued for the next model year – and likely without replacement.

In Riese & Müller's product range, the "Birdy" was recently the only bicycle without an electric assist motor, making it a true exotic.


Source - velojournal

Meaning it's gone, or will be electrified? Could Pacific Cycles keep selling the acoustic version?

https://www.velojournal.ch/aktuell/n...de-produktion/

Pacific Cycles announced the Birdy 4 and an e-Birdy with a Bosch mid motor (probably a Performance line SX) that should be shown at the Eurobike 2025 that started today.

Pacific cycles is already selling the special series P45 (which is derived from the special series P40 commercialized 5 years ago) and the Gen 4 Birdy should use the same frame as this p45.

I guess that its the reason why this announcement of Riese & Müller was made now.

Up to now, there was an agreement between Riese & Müller who developed the 3 first generations of Birdy and Pacific Cycles who is manufacturing the Birdy frame that Riese & Müller was selling the Birdy under its name in Europe while Pacific Cycles was selling it in Asia.
I think that this agreement ended now and that from now on, Pacific Cycles is free to do what they are willing to do with the Birdy including introducing a new model and not manufacturing frames for Riese & Müller anymore. The P40 and P45 like the 3 generations of titanium Birdy are Pacific Cycles own developments.

Riese & Müller is indeed since several years an high end ebike manufacturer they have their own frame manufacturing in Portugal (the Birdy frame was an exception), they have a big network of resellers selling ebikes which is not interested in selling a folding bike. Selling the Birdy was just a remain of the pas when Riese & Müller was a small startup created by two young guys.

While for Pacific Cycles the Birdy is their most famous bike type and a very important bike.

The fact that Pacific Cycles is introducing the gen 4 Birdy and e-Birdy at the Eurobike means for me that they are willing to sell them in Europe.

BTW, Pacific Cycles is also moving to ebikes, they have now several new models based on the Bosch Performance Line SX lightweight mid motor.

Good news. We should soon get pictures from Eurobike 2025.

On second thought, instead of a hybrid CS-RK3 hub from Sturmey-Archer, a simple hub and a double crankset is good enough for touring with the Birdy: For instance, combined with a 52/36 crankset, a 11-32T cassette gives 1,5-6,6m development.

So I need the following parts for a makeover:

• Basic (quiet!) hub with an 8s cassette;
• Rear derailleur
• Shifter
• Double crankset
• Clamp
• Front derailleur
• Pacific Cycles' chain tensioner — or some cheaper, less convenient alternative from eg. AliExpress

For the rear derailleur, what about Microshift's Super Short Acolyte derailleur + 11-38T 8s cassette that's meant for smaller wheels (20")?

Will the chainline work fine?

Since parts are hard to find over here — they won't even order the trolley wheels for the Expedition rack —, does someone know of a good store in Europe (Germany) I could order from?

I think the first thing to do is to measure the chainline at the bottom bracket to compare your chainline value of a Birdy City with the chainline value of the Birdy Touring with derailleur.

On my Birdy Touring I have 30mm from the center of the chain to the right side of seatpost tube.

Same here.

The seat tube is 40mm [Edit: wrongly measured 35,6mm]. Does it mean I have to get a clamp and braze-on derailleur?

Yes, there are special special front derailleur mounting clamps for the Birdy 3 from Ridea for instance. There was a Birdy 2 factory equipped with such a clamp+front derailleur.

Now the question is: is this really necessary, is a single front chainring not enough if a wider range cassette is used like a 0-34t for instance? Such a 9-34 provides 378% a range of while with 52-36+11-32 its 420%.

What is sure is that a special derailleur like this miroshift is not needed with a 9-32 or 9-34t cassette: nor Riese & Müller nor Pacific Cycles use such a derailleur, they use long cage Shimano Deore, medium cage Shimano 105, long cage Shimano Sora, long cage SRAM...

I have such a 52-36 compact front crankset on my Titanium Birdy (that has a front derailleur mounting for a braze on front derailleur on its frame because Pacific Cycles mount a 11-28t 11s cassette) coupled now with a 9-32t 11s cassette and a Ultegra medium cage derailleur and, even if I ride in a city with steep uphills and even I would like slightly shorter gear inches, I actually never really need the small 36t chainring.

So on my Birdy 3 Touring I have now a 50t front and a 9-34t cassette with also a Shimano Ultegra RD-R8000GS medium cage 11s derailleur (changing the chainrings of my Titanium Birdy is difficult and expensive because Pacific Cycles mounted a carbon FSA crankset with a proprietary chainring mounting and the Ultegra derailleur is the previous generation Ultegra that goes only up to 32t).

Because I'll only use it for actual touring, ie. heavily packed, sometimes riding in really hilly areas, so I need more range. Besides, 8s chains and 11T cogs last longer.

As for the Microshift: With a 20" wheel folder, I already teared the derailleur, so I wouldn't mind a shorter cage. I have found no infos about whether it can be used with a 11-32T cassette from Shimano.

This clamp from Litepro looks like it can do the job.


---
Edit: A retailer tells me that, for some reason, the Microshift derailleur won't work with a 11-32T Shimano cassette :-/
---
Edit: Microshift replied: "You can, but the Super Short derailleur is designed for 11-34t t 11-38t cassettes. Going to a cassette beneath that range can cause sluggish shifting in the larger cogs of the range, but you will be fine with an 11-32t." As for the plain vs. Pro shifters: "The Pro shifter has a silicone pad on the lower lever. Everything else internally is the same."

If I can use a Shimano 11-32T cassette (eg. CS-HG41-8)… can't I also use an 8s Shimano shifter (eg. SL-M315-8R)? Why would the Microshift derailleur require its own shifter then ?
--
Edit: No go with a Shimano SL-M315-8R shifter, as it can't reach the last two cogs (OK by hand). Could it be the 8s Microshift cassette is wider than an 8s Shimano?

NOISE FROM BOTTOM BRACKET
I had mounted the Big Apple tyres on the original rims and changed the shifter cable set and pedals. The pedals are a bit wider then the originals and had scraped the ground a few times,. Overall the mods.have improved the ride comfort, however, in last 2 days I hear a noise coming from the bottom bracket as I push the pedals can feel a bit of vibration. This noise is a bit concerning as it' s seems am riding a cheap supermarket bike. Also, the mechanic told me the chain is quite stretched and if I want would need to replace chain and a new cassette.
Any thought on the noise from the bottom bracket? Is it too old as well?

The cable pull on Microshift Acolyte/Advent/Sword Black/Advent X/Sword groupsets differs from Shimano 8/9/10 speed groupsets. You can mix and match those Microshift groupsets as long as the shifter matches the cassette (8 speed shifter for an 8 speed cassette, the brand of the cassette doesn’t matter), but you need a shifter from those ranges to activate a derailleur from those ranges.

Does anyone know the correct size to order for a bottom bracket replacement on a Birdy III touring Riese & Müller?

The Riese & Müller Birdy 3 has external bearings with a hollow axle crankset.

Its not a traditional bottom bracket, just two cups with bearings inside on both side of the bottom bracket box of the frame. The axle is part of the crankset that goes into the center hole of the two cups bearings.

I never dismounted the crankset of my

Birdy 3, I do not know the diameter of the axle of the crankset.

There are information written on the cups: