VegasCyclist,

Thanks for clearing up the issue regarding you bike shop; I think Lotek pretty much got the service you should have. Also, as someone else put it, the mech. is there for the shop and has is vested in its success. As an LBS employee, I'm not there just to butter my ego or make money (for me or the shop); I'm there to keep people on their bikes and get people onto bikes (as I tell folks, the more people I get on two wheels, the less I have to worry about on four when I get out there). I see myself as an ambassador to the sport, and anything I can do to further that cause is important. In short, the owners of our shop opened thirty years ago because they couldn't get the kind of service they wanted at the local shops of the time. We now have the only two stores in town; can't tell you the number of them that have come again--at least a dozen. This attitude is why.

My advice--the next time you feel like you're not getting the service you desire, do two things: take your business elsewhere (and tell the new shop exactly why you've come there--motivate them to give you service), and call the old shop's owner and tell him/her exactly why he/she has lost your business--you ought to see our owner when he gets a negative call (and you should also see him when he gets positive feedback).

Watching while you work? Most customers are either no problem or welcome due to tastelessly enjoyable humor, general good vibe, or other positive factor. One of my favorites is a trucker who plies the stormy seas of I-5; you think cyclists have scary road stories? Another is a pathology tech--enough said there!Mechanics not helpful? Individual personality chemistry is one possibility, also a "numbers first" mindset on the part of a manager or store owner. Helping customers try to do their own work is actually good for business--they figure out why paying for work is worth the money and special order tools are a good item, too.

Regarding the sign- we have an interesting one at the hotel where I work. It reads:

Our service manager is Helen Waite. If you need service go to Helen Waite.

Glad to know that it is a joke. Otherwise, I don't think I even wanna consider cycling as a sport.

TrekFurthur is right on… “I see myself as an ambassador to the sport, and anything I can do to further that cause is important.” A good mechanic is more than a service, it is shop “good will” and it’s what draws in the repeat customers.

I’ve done a decade in network administration where the “grunt work” was doing “end user trouble tickets”. We had two types of administrators:

Those who would go out on the shop floor and yank the user’s PC, bring it back to the “secure” server room, fix whatever difficulty and return the unit. Their mindset was they could do the repair quicker without a constant stream of annoying questions as to what went wrong and what were they doing. They tended to be junior in status.

The second type of administrators would go out on the shop floor and have the end user share with them all the issues that lead up to the failure, then they would endeavor to accelerate user’s learning curve on appropriate counter measures to avoid a reoccurrence. Needless to say, those “ambassadors” were far better received and much more effective in the long run. Oh, those ambassador Admins were typically the senior tenured staff.

“Good will” created by an ambassador is invaluable to a shops credibility and perceived worth. It is appears that the lion’s share of LBS’s main profit’s come from the margin they make on the sale of bicycles and parts, not on service fees.

I took up mastering the art and science of bicycle mechanics years ago after I had a wheel (poorly done by a LBS) fail and left me stranded many miles out on a bike path. Needless to say, I didn’t take the wheel back, but I did determine the shop owners name and wrote a polite but concerned letter sharing the reason he lost a customer. Until I learned to do my own work I would drive two hours round trip to a top tier trusted shop referred to me by my fellow riders.

I don't mind if customers watch me while I'm working on their bike.. Infact I'll move slightly so they can see. It just becomes very distracting when they are right up next to you asking you whats this whats that. I even tell them what I'm doing when I'm doing it.

I don't know about that for sure. I will say that everyone in my LBS is working on maintenance, and interupts their work to handle sales and service visits and phone calls. Once finished, each returns quickly to a maintenance stand. The bikes hanging and waiting for maintenance or pickup clearly outnumber the number of new and used bikes on the sales floor.

My guess is that maintenance and service is what covers the overhead and makes it possible for there to be more full time folks in the shop whether they are doing maintenance or sales at any given point in time.

No shop could survive on what the maintenance and repair bring in; those fees barely cover the mechanic's salary. Think about that the next time you quibble about paying for having a tube installed, or some such other service. No one complains about paying to have their car serviced; as such, it never ceases to amaze me how much people will complain about the LBS charging for the service it provides. Many customers just seem to think they're entitled to . . . heck, they just seem to think they're entitled.

Sorry so grouchy; a similar post on another board kind of set me off today Many of my customers are friends and riding companions, but the others are probably the same folks who hit the horn at you just when the light turns green. If everyone had a little patience and a little compassion, the world would be a lot better off, we'd all get the service we wanted, and we'd probably get to work faster. I know--tall order, huh?

I cannot recall a single instance of car repair that I did not feel as though I was being taken advatage of. Not one. I've even seen bills where there were more hours charged for labor than the total amount of time they had the car!

No one complains about paying to have their car repaired?

Webist;

On your LBS observation: “bikes hanging and waiting for maintenance or pickup clearly outnumber the number of new and used bikes on the sales floor” Rest assured this would be a marked exception in the Washington DC Metro area. In fact the bicycle retailer with the largest presence (eight shops) offers “Free Lifetime Service” for original owners (limited to adjustment only, not normal wear).

I spoke with a mechanic at the most respected (top tier) shop in my area and he mentioned that the majority of his time went to prepping new bikes (they are noted for delivering a flawless product). I purchased a part from this shop (owing to convenience and support of their excellent service department) and noted that the part was marked up 2.5 times that of the going “Web” price. However, the mechanic did know the exact part I needed and “got it right the first time.” That’s why they are still in business after twenty years.

As I view it, the difference between commercial automobile and bicycle repair is a bicycle is largely a discretionary purchase, where as the automobile (for better or worse) is considered obligatory. For the most part, I have found those in the bicycle industry tend to be true believers in cycling as a sport &/or wholesome pursuit. I’ve not meet many monetarily focuses mercenaries employed at the LBS level. However, I may be naïve on this, though I trust not.

Webist, I didn't say nobody had problems with how their bills were computed by auto mechanics, just that nobody goes in to get a brake and lube job and expects to get it for free! :confused:

No, but in many places, if you go in and pay for an oil change, they will check/fill all of the other fluids, lube the steering joints, and vacuum the interior and clean the windows.

My LBS has shown a willingness to do a little more than they really have to.
The first one I went to, sold me tires and then charged me 8 dollars extra to put them on.
The current LBS did not charge extra to put them on. In fact, they brought me in the back and showed me how to do it so I could change a flat if I needed to.

Someone gave me clipless pedals. I bought shoes and cleats from the LBS. They put the cleats on the shoes for me, pulled out a trainer, threw my bike on it, then spent time with me to teach me how to use them and get them adjusted. Also let me spin on the trainer till I was comfortable clipping in and out.
They go the extra mile for me, I'll spend the extra dollar in thier store.

My oil change people do that and give me newspaper to occupy me while I wait.

My LBS certainly goes the extra mile for me as well. Indeed, I have yet to get a claim ticket for a repair or adjustemnt. They just yank a bike off the maintenance stand and put mine up, fix it and give it right back.

They know where I prefer to make all my bike related purchases. I am also careful to make certain that they know folks who are coming in because I sent them.

Actually, maybe they like me also because they know I'd rather use money than a tool to repair my machine.

That always helps.

this is the type of lbs I 'thought' I was going to, until the stuff with my wheel happened so now I go to another shop, but I'd like to have one who goes the extra mile like you had there..

Well Vegas,
It is in thier own interest.
They sold me my used road bike.
In fact they've sold me almost everything I bought since I started riding, which is admittedly not a lot of stuff.
They do see me getting more and more addicted. They are kind of acting like the proverbial "crack dealer". You know, "here you go, that'll fix you up nice. No, no, this one's on me...".
They see me drooling on the pretty Pinarellos, Fujis and Merlins on the rack and they know if they treat me right, they stand to make quite a few bucks off of me.
Like I said, "you rub myback, I'll rub yours". Fine by me.

ChipR

here,s my lbs story: i went to one of the top line lbs in our town looking for a fairly good p/resistant tyre for my back wheel the very knowledgable guy showed me a specialised turbo s-works with a price label of $130 on it ,i said "very nice but too expensive for me " he says ile let you have it for $80 as it,s the only black one left & most people buy them in pairs so i bought the tyre thinking ide secured a bargain! i was impressed with the tyre as ive never had a puncture yet ( i shouldnt have said that )anyhow last week i noticed my front tyre was looking a bit dodgy ,i went to a differant lbs near were i work looking for a more moderatly priced tyre, mentioning that i liked the s-work but it was a bit too pricey , he asked me wat sort of price i was looking @,i mentioned $70 ,he said the s-works was$69 !! i said HOW MUCH ?? he took a step back & said ile let it go for $65 !!!!! needless to say i now have a matching pair of turbo s-works tyres & guess where i wont be shopping !

Gosh all the horror stories about bike shops.

From what I have heard, no one gets rich owning a bike shop. I figure that by in large, what we get from bike shops is subsidized by the owners (who accept a low return on their investment) and the poeple who work there (who accept low wages).

I think comparing a local bike shop's (LBS) prices to the lowest prices on the web really is not fair. A bike shop has to pay the rent, they have to pay a salary and they have to have the inventory. You can go in and actually SEE what you are buying and if it is clothing TRY it on.

Also they provice support. That place you buy things from on the web will not repair your bike.

Now does this mean that the LBS is always right? Of course, not. Every human institution is rife with errors.

But many of them do a pretty good job at a more than reasonable price and we are lucky to have them.

faith's posting brings up a good point, and part of a bike store's overhead. New bikes, the out o' the box kind that bike stores load in the back door, can be extremely raw material. Despite the lies that are told to bike dealers by their reps and vendors, NO BIKE IN THE WHOLE F*&%ING WORLD can be handed to a customer in good conscience without between 90 minutes and 2 1/2 hours of assembler and mechanic/inspection time in it. Factory assemblers are just that--they slap parts together. Bike company product planners think too much from marketing and nowhere near enough from engineering--any mechanic or salesperson can tell you that there really is a phenomenon known as a "defective spec;" a product choice decision by a bike vendor that results in a product that will never work well for a customer--the best stores will fix these problems, the customer will never know they existed, and the store will either eat the cost or spend more $/time browbeating the rep to cover the cost or doing creative bookkeeping to accomplish same. These high-quality stores (I used to work for one before starting my own business--where I don't sell new bikes) are advocates for customers in their warranty dealings with bike vendors, and also cover problems that bike mfgrs. won't acknowledge as existing!
These stores are more than dealers for a bike line--they are an extension of the bike company's engineering and quality control staffs.