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Thrive With Less

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Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

Thrive With Less

Old 06-22-12, 02:13 AM
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Thrive With Less

I am getting ready for a big move across country to start graduate school and came across this video on universities website. Some kind of student film project I am guessing but it was prominently displayed along with some other films about leading a happy student life and getting involved on campus. The whole thing is 1 hour but you can get the main ideas from the first 3 minutes.

The students challenge themselves to live with less and to thrive while doing it. Some of the criteria of the challenge are only wearing one pair of pants and four shirts, not using social media, and not to drive their cars for trips under 2 miles.

Just two miles? Seems real easy to me but then again I have yet to live in Michigan in the winter.... Is not driving for trips under 2 miles really on par with the near deprivation of living life with a single pair of pants? What are your thoughts?

Link to video: https://www.thrivewithless.com/
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Old 06-22-12, 03:06 AM
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A little after 39:00 in the video is when they start talking about bikes and such.
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Old 06-22-12, 03:23 AM
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Not driving if its under 2 miles? Heck I don't drive unless its under 100 miles and I have a good reason. I remember as a student I had a beaten up old car - but no money for gas so I left it parked, got a $300 bike on credit and rode that everywhere. In fact I think my Uncle still has it sitting in a garage 20 years later.
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Old 06-22-12, 10:08 AM
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Interesting video for people under 30 years of age since all us old coots already learned what the video teaches.
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Old 06-22-12, 10:10 AM
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Under 2 miles? Might as well walk it, no need for a bicycle unless carrying tons of junk. Shouldn't the bicycle be able to extend it to like 5 miles (one-way), at least?
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Old 06-22-12, 05:59 PM
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I'm glad you posted this. I saw an article about it in the local paper, but forgot the name when I went to search for it.

I agree that 2 miles is a pretty high limbo bar. Most people could ride further with ease and comfort. But I've noticed that 2 miles is a pretty common goal for discussions of carfree transport. I think that distance covers a majority of car trips in America, and it wouldn't scare people off who might not know how short a mile seems on a bike (compared to walking).

The campus lifestyle is very involved with material possessions. You'll see this if you're on campus during Welcome Week. Even when I was in college 20 years ago, it was amazing how much stuff the average undergrad stuffed into his or her room. Many of them have enough clothes that they don't have to do laundry at all in college. they just cram a semester's worth of dirty clothes in their car and tale them home to be laundered. The electronic equipment owned by some students is worth more than everything I own at age 57.
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Old 06-22-12, 07:50 PM
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This is interesting, and I like what they are doing. However, I don't think it makes as much sense in a student context as it would for people with jobs and more choices. I didn't have a car when I was a student and I lived in the dorm with a roommate. That's an extremely spartan lifestyle right there.

But convincing people who can afford a lot of excess to cut back on it is a very good project, and something that would benefit the people who can afford the excess more than anyone.
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Old 06-22-12, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by alhedges
This is interesting, and I like what they are doing. However, I don't think it makes as much sense in a student context as it would for people with jobs and more choices. I didn't have a car when I was a student and I lived in the dorm with a roommate. That's an extremely spartan lifestyle right there.
But I think that most people will be less willing to try and thrive with less once they get invested in having stuff. Start the concept when it is easy and encourage people to maintain those standards. It would seem that getting married and having kids would be the major hurdle there.
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Old 06-23-12, 10:21 PM
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I think what we're seeing how the current economic depression is effecting the 2K generation. The whole concept of the next generation living better than the previous has ended and those born after 2000 are finding this unfortunate truth.
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Old 06-24-12, 12:05 AM
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an easy way to actually use a "measure" which I've lived by more or less for most of my adult life.
you're expenses should be about 1/3 of your take home pay.

so however that works out...
if you make $10/hr and its 2,080hrs/yr as a Full Time Equivalent, thats approx $20k/yr.
perhaps, single, so taxes are about 30%, so thats about $14k/yr. maybe there is a tax return every year.
1/3 of $14k/yr is less than $5k/yr. <-- who can live on $5k/yr? you'd have to be homeless (not paying rent), on some sort of assistance, etc... whatever it is, you can't go into debt.

so you got to shoot for at least $20/hr as a single person.

if you spend more than 70% of your take home, there probably is a good chance a person can reduce their expenses in some way.

the 1 pair of pants thing... kind of true.
the other day I was talking with some co-workers, and I had said, "poor people can not afford cheap clothing"
or processed foods as far as thats concerned. <-- health issues = increased cost

so my brother is now in his 2nd year of sobriety. he makes about $10/hr, no car, rides his bike, lives in LA, rides to and from work in Santa Monica. works crazy hours! he honestly busts his butt to make a living. I turned him onto quinoa, etc...

so about 2 years ago I told him about clothing.
I gave him 2 wool base layer shirts, 1 smart wool, the other DeFeet, and I've got him into wearing lightweight knickers, pants, etc...
so every day, when he gets home, takes a shower, he washes some of his clothes with soap, the wool, he just rinses in cold water, hang dries, and puts it back on in the morning. wash clothes while in the shower.

laundry is about $2.50 per load, not to mention buying soap, etc...

energy = money

read, Ivan Illich: Energy and Equity: https://clevercycles.com/energy_and_equity/

even at $10/hr no high school diploma much less a GED, years of addiction, he has always ridden a bike, but now is sober, more focused and becoming more and more motivated, as he manages to save more and more. currently he's at about $2k saved up. this is with shared rent, a cell phone, health insurance, groceries, et al

maybe he wants to go to bike school to maybe be a certified wrench... who knows...

as they say, "one day at a time"?

this year he managed to buy his own CAAD10
I've had him up to Monterey for about 8 days, we rode about 400 miles during that time, ate like crazy, and enjoyed the "vacation"
the focus is there, he doesn't waste his money, he's got a support group, living a healthy life. heck... he goes to yoga! <-- for $5/class!

myself, I've had money come and go.
in the last 5 years it melted away when I went home to Ventura to help with my dad who had bladder cancer, then my grandmother with alzheimer's and my blind grandfather was just old.

if I were not living a simplified life on a bicycle, I'm not sure if I would have had the option/luxury to quit a job for 5 years and live on what I had saved, along with a few bucks made here and there with some honest effort doing what I personally love most... bikes of course.

so the simple life does have its merit. i fully believe that. however, as the economy is what it is, and by simply living a legit and honest lifestyle, its really hard to avoid things like $1k/month rents, etc... In my experience(s) a balance is prudent. A solid job, simple lifestyle, and maybe you'd get lucky to have some free time to ride your bike.
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Old 06-24-12, 02:11 PM
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Thanks for sharing about your brother. I find it hard to imagine living off $10 and dealing with some very burdonsome issues. Sounds like he like riding bicycle, which is a real benefit if you are living on a tight budget.
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Old 06-24-12, 03:11 PM
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AsanaCycles, congratulations on your brother for being able to save up on $10 an hour and stay sober while living in LA. He sounds much more motivated than most people I know

The only way I managed to save up $2k when I used to make $10/hr down here in Orange County was by living with my Mom (2007-2008, I was in my early 20's at the time, just barely finished up my bachelor's degree and jobs were hard to find). And I had no health insurance, I wasn't paying rent, just helping with gas/water/electric utility bills while my Mom paid the phone bills, the mortgage, property taxes.
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Old 06-24-12, 05:44 PM
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its doable:

I pretty much keep him up to speed on bike parts, but its a fine line when it comes to being supportive, giving him his space, not over bearing, and of course the worse thing I could probably do would be to simply give him everything.

we both have 56cm CAAD10s, I have a slew of wheels, tyres, etc... ad nauseam, so I simply keep a stash for him when the time comes. we both have each other bank acct #s, so when he burns up a set of tyres, I'll sell him a set. typically Rubino Pro's in 25c. I'll ask $40 for the set including shipping. that $40 bucks of course I just stash back in my "brother acct"

another thing I've been trying to encourage him with, is to know bike parts, and learn the art of scavenging, re-sale, and high quality mechanic services. I've had him help out with a few things here and there, like a big event, passing out leaflets, etc... and to show him what a quality wrench service is, how to interact with the guys, and what kind of money you could expect from something like handing out nutrition thru a car window.

I firmly believe in The Way of the Bicycle. simply thru default of efficient use of energy and now days the need to get exercise, as Huxley would refer to as "the reducing valve", which all processes pass thru... if one were fortunate enough to have the character to abide a bicycle lifestyle, that alone... for the most part, liberates us from most entrapments.

in regards to environ:
I often like to say something like "consequence is stronger than will", or the likes of "product of your environment". I was about 10 when I realized this on a schwinn varsity. if you are fortunate enough, maybe you can choose your environment. some can change their environments to lesser or greater degrees. I doubt that I could ever be a Thai monk, but maybe... doubtful tho. but I can choose to ride my bike to a different town, change jobs, and be mindful to what behaviors I engage.

thats the type of little quips I'd show my brother. small steps, choose doable goals, with long term objectives. bcz every day takes effort, and regardless you will make some sort of effort every day. if you choose to get up in the morning smoke a cigarette and complain about the govt, and lack of jobs, well... guess what... "thoughts in mind, produce in kind". chances are, you'll smoke another cigarette, and reinforce the idea that yes... there are no jobs out there. a year will go by, and you'll have smoked 360 packs of cigarettes, spent about $2k in the process, and have further isolated yourself from getting a job. Add smoking pot... game over.

wake up in the morning, get on bike, go for a ride, learn to fix something, be productive, even if its pumping a bicycle tyre. that is a skill set. there is a good chance that if you become expert tyre repair, you may get a job doing such.

so yes, it is doable, its miserly, and not too difficult.
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Old 06-25-12, 03:24 AM
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I got in trouble for washing my delicates (read: lingerie) by hand in college, and they tried to impose a "students must use washing machines" rule. Though that probably had more to do with the fact that it was a conservative evangelical college and I guess they didn't want the reminder on display that their coeds had boobs?

That being said, one pair of pants? Ehhhhhhhh. I got away with three during college, and I still only have 4 (unless you count the scrubs, but those have to be washed with hot water.) but what do you do while those are washing/drying? Esp if they're jeans and they take 2+ days to dry?
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Old 06-25-12, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by kookaburra1701
I got in trouble for washing my delicates (read: lingerie) by hand in college, and they tried to impose a "students must use washing machines" rule. Though that probably had more to do with the fact that it was a conservative evangelical college and I guess they didn't want the reminder on display that their coeds had boobs?

That being said, one pair of pants? Ehhhhhhhh. I got away with three during college, and I still only have 4 (unless you count the scrubs, but those have to be washed with hot water.) but what do you do while those are washing/drying? Esp if they're jeans and they take 2+ days to dry?
Gotta love that "conservative" side of life

Jeans never dry around here in the summer time...

I wore khaki uniform pants for years that would pretty much dry overnight, only paid a $1 a pair at the thrift shops. I suspect those were a cotton/poly blend.

I am in the process of weeding down my closet now, only saving grace is that my company provides uniforms for us, so that is 11 sets of clothes that I don't have to really worry about.

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Old 06-25-12, 04:05 AM
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They didn't count on how feisty the female student body was going to be -the next day bras and panties (and boxers/briefs) and whatever else we could find at the local thrift shops festooned all of the administration offices. It was awesome.

They relented right away, especially because this was in SoCal, so stuff dried outside in an hour or less, generally.

I'm lucky in that I can wear what are basically pajamas (scrubs) for work. They don't take much room in my closet and they dry on a rack super quick.
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Old 06-28-12, 02:17 AM
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I thought the film was a bit touching. The students were so serious, even earnest about the task at hand, which really involved not much more than living within their limited means. There were moments when I thought to myself, well, of course you can make do with less, you're a student, der, but the film did a good job of reminding the viewer that for these young upper middle class people, this was a new experience. It was interesting to me that many of them viewed it as an experiment with a higher level of consciousness, when it was actually just a brush with reality. I was particularly struck by the one young woman who seemed to really struggle with the whole experience; once she was no longer able to shield herself with comfort shopping, and had to confront her state of being rather nakedly, she was clearly lost.
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Old 06-28-12, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by zeppinger
The whole thing is 1 hour but you can get the main ideas from the first 3 minutes.

The students challenge themselves to live with less and to thrive while doing it. Some of the criteria of the challenge are only wearing one pair of pants and four shirts, not using social media, and not to drive their cars for trips under 2 miles.

Just two miles? Seems real easy to me but then again I have yet to live in Michigan in the winter.... Is not driving for trips under 2 miles really on par with the near deprivation of living life with a single pair of pants? What are your thoughts?
It seems like the challenges are not so much physical but mental. And not challege in the idea of struggle, but rather to challenge assumptions built into our culture and demonstrate that they are assumptions, not necessary part of living. "Challenging the mindset" as Jaclyn says. Getting people to think about what they are doing, not just being sheeple and doing what they see others doing.

1) Limited living space
2) No eating out
3) No driving within 2 miles of home
4) One pair of pants, four shirts
5) No social media
6) Persue your passions

So none of these are particularly difficult, but they do challenge the accepted mindsets of Mc Mansions, fast food, automobile-centric living, fashion, allowing social media to define your day, and doing what society wants rather than determining what you believe is needed.
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Originally Posted by Bjforrestal
I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.

Last edited by Artkansas; 06-28-12 at 03:20 AM.
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Old 06-28-12, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Artkansas
It seems like the challenges are not so much physical but mental. And not challege in the idea of struggle, but rather to challenge assumptions built into our culture and demonstrate that they are assumptions, not necessary part of living. "Challenging the mindset" as Jaclyn says. Getting people to think about what they are doing, not just being sheeple and doing what they see others doing.

1) Limited living space
2) No eating out
3) No driving within 2 miles of home
4) One pair of pants, four shirts
5) No social media
6) Persue your passions

So none of these are particularly difficult, but they do challenge the accepted mindsets of Mc Mansions, fast food, automobile-centric living, fashion, allowing social media to define your day, and doing what society wants rather than determining what you believe is needed.
The film actually did inspire me to clean out my own closet, literally and figuratively, and I discovered, much to my sincere surprise, that the vast majority of clothes in my closet had not been used for years. (I guess I should look inside more often.) I couldn't quite make it to one pair of pants and four shirts, though, it's more like four pairs of pants, one suit and ten shirts, but it sure feels good to be able to see the back of the closet again.

The figurative parts of the closet cleaning are a little more difficult. For example, what do you do with long-time friends whose values have migrated in directions almost exactly opposite to yours? (It's actually occurred to me that if I were to meet some of these friends now, I wouldn't initiate a friendship with them at all.) What if you have a job you love, but it's part of a larger organization that does things that are very distasteful?

Anyway, thanks for posting this little film. That's one of the odd little benefits of this forum: you come across things you never would have been exposed to otherwise (and sometimes it's not even about bikes).

Last edited by bragi; 06-28-12 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 07-01-12, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by bragi
The film actually did inspire me to clean out my own closet, literally and figuratively, and I discovered, much to my sincere surprise, that the vast majority of clothes in my closet had not been used for years. (I guess I should look inside more often.) I couldn't quite make it to one pair of pants and four shirts, though, it's more like four pairs of pants, one suit and ten shirts, but it sure feels good to be able to see the back of the closet again.
I've spent a lot of the last year trying to get through all the accumulation in my house. It's amazing how this stuff piles up and is another reason not to have a car. You simply can't lug all that crap on a bicycle, can you? (Except, I guess, when a good chunk of the excess crap is bicycles. )
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Old 07-01-12, 03:35 PM
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Of course having few clothes is not always the most efficient. Think of it, if you have only 4 shirts, how often do you have to do laundry? If you have 30?

Of course this is affected by your laundry facilities. If you have an in-home washer dryer, then you need to keep up and laundry is not that much of an interruption. But if you are like me, with a laundry room in another building, then it's more efficient to save up the laundry and do multiple loads at once.
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Originally Posted by Bjforrestal
I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.
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Old 07-01-12, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Artkansas
Of course having few clothes is not always the most efficient. Think of it, if you have only 4 shirts, how often do you have to do laundry? If you have 30?

Of course this is affected by your laundry facilities. If you have an in-home washer dryer, then you need to keep up and laundry is not that much of an interruption. But if you are like me, with a laundry room in another building, then it's more efficient to save up the laundry and do multiple loads at once.
I have traveled for up to a month with a total of 2 basic outfits with a spare set of underclothes. Everything I was wearing was easily hand washed and would dry overnight or come very close to it. Interesting way to travel, but also quite liberating compared to the usual suit bag, suit case and brief case load.

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Old 07-01-12, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by wahoonc
I have traveled for up to a month with a total of 2 basic outfits with a spare set of underclothes. Everything I was wearing was easily hand washed and would dry overnight or come very close to it. Interesting way to travel, but also quite liberating compared to the usual suit bag, suit case and brief case load.

Aaron
I just got back from a 10 month cycling trip across Asia and this is exactly what I did. I had one long sleeve shirt, two short sleeve shirts, one pair of shorts, one pair of pants, two pairs underwear, two pairs socks, one sweater. one rain shell. Admittedly, I wore through at least one shirt and two pairs of shorts during the trip but they were usually mended several times before finally being tossed out.

I agree that more is not always more and that less is not always less. I think the most inefficient thing about having a lot of clothes, other than the volume of space it takes up, is that lots of garments will simply never get worse and you will eventually not fit it right anymore or it will go out of style ect.... Even reading a fashion blog the other day the "fashion shopping expert" advised not to buy any clothes that you don't LOVE! Thats because we tend to only wear our top 4-5 outfits over and over again rather than actually cycle through our entire wardrobes. I wear something you don't like as much when you can just wash something you do? Point being is that there is more than enough clothing out there in the world so don't spend hard earned dollars on anything thats going to be sitting the game of life out on the bench.
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Old 07-01-12, 06:39 PM
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Ironically, I tend to get clothing that I don't love, because if I love it I will never wear it except in just the right circumstances. I get much better mileage out of clothing I don't care about. The bulk of my wearables are T-shirts. Most come from events I've been to. As you say, there is more than enough clothing. They're giving it away.

Actually a few months back I gave away about 20 of my favorite T shirts. I had had them for many years and hadn't worn them. Never had special enough times to merit wearing them out on. And now, my neighbor brought me a wonderful Hanuman T-shirt back from Thailand. I love it, but I don't know when I'll get a chance to wear it.
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Old 07-01-12, 07:49 PM
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the clothing bit is interesting:

somewhere along the line, maybe 10 years ago, I started buying quality clothing that I would actually wear every week.
maybe it was some reading thru Patagonia regarding low energy use for maintaining the clothing, and sustainable fabrics.

I'm a big fan of Patagonia Capeline, which I wear almost every night. in return it allows me to run the heater that much less, if at all.

in the last 5 years I started wearing wool.
in particular I've been wearing 1 Defeet base layer shirt, or 1 Smartwool base layer shirt. just in the last few months the Smartwool shirt has started to tear. the DeFeet shirt is slightly heavier and is wearing much longer.

wool from www.oregoncyclewear.com is awesome.

with the base layer pieces I rinse them out daily when I shower, and hang to dry. typically its dry enough to wear in the morning, otherwise I just use the other shirt.

with oregon cycle wear wool jerseys, I'm amazed to wear it in 90F while cycling, and of course foggy monterey mornings, my commute thru Pebble Beach, wool is perfect.

while out on tour, a wool jersey looks nice with a pair of light weight pants or knickers.

and I'm always amazed how long a wool jersey can go without actually using soap on it.
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