Addiction XXXX6
#2251
Peloton Shelter Dog
That Di2 stuff for MTBs looks like the shiznit all right. That's the battery that thin tubular gizmo, designed to fit inside the seat tube. Slick.
But that's overkill if you're running 1 x 11 like I am, that Sram system works great.
But that's overkill if you're running 1 x 11 like I am, that Sram system works great.
__________________
https://www.cotsiscad.com
https://www.cotsiscad.com
#2252
Casually Deliberate
Massive upgrades have been made to the tandem.
Front: Araya something or other laced to Shimano 105 and shod with Continental Country Grip 700 x 36mm
Rear: Mavic MA laced to Shimano LX and shod with WTB All Terrain 700 x 32
Front Derailleur : Shimano LX
Diacompe calipers front and rear
Captain's pedals : Suntour Cyclone w/ Christophe clips.
And best of all. Suntour cockpit on an aluminium handlebar!
(tempted to put the crabon bar in back but kinda scared because the stoker stem is so crappy I'm afraid it needs to be machined a little bit to get rid of sharp bits.)
The bike totally flies now! The little lady was a little disconcerted by how I complained about the front brake being so crappy on a couple of occasions. And how, after the second time complaining about the crap brake, saying how much faster the bike is, and how we should sprint home to see what we can get it up to.
Front: Araya something or other laced to Shimano 105 and shod with Continental Country Grip 700 x 36mm
Rear: Mavic MA laced to Shimano LX and shod with WTB All Terrain 700 x 32
Front Derailleur : Shimano LX
Diacompe calipers front and rear
Captain's pedals : Suntour Cyclone w/ Christophe clips.
And best of all. Suntour cockpit on an aluminium handlebar!
(tempted to put the crabon bar in back but kinda scared because the stoker stem is so crappy I'm afraid it needs to be machined a little bit to get rid of sharp bits.)
The bike totally flies now! The little lady was a little disconcerted by how I complained about the front brake being so crappy on a couple of occasions. And how, after the second time complaining about the crap brake, saying how much faster the bike is, and how we should sprint home to see what we can get it up to.
Last edited by Ramona_W; 04-18-15 at 10:45 PM. Reason: Stupid Windows phone autocorrected "brake" to "break".
#2253
Peloton Shelter Dog
2015 Scott Scale 700SL: Pcad full review/trail test/riding impressions
Got this bike in January, finally got it out in the woods a few times this past week. Riding impressions: I've spent 25+ years riding 26" wheel MTBs, so this is the first bike I've ridden with a larger wheel size. 29" has essentially replaced 26" wheels in recent years, this 700sl has 27.5" (650b) sized wheels. The first thing I noticed is how much easier tha 27.5" wheels roll over stuff, it really makes all the technical stuff half as hard. The idea with 27.5" is that the are supposed to confer most of the benefits of rollability of the 29" wheels, but they're much lighter and more agile. I've never ridden a 29er, so I can't compare them, but it seemed to me the first few times in the woods that the bike kind of felt like a 26" wheel MTB but it rolled over stuff much better, yet it still felt agile and flickable. That was my impression, that's what the magazine reviewers who ride everything generally say, they like it. Seemed to make the technical stuff like rock gardens, roots, etc. half as hard. Just rolls over stuff much better.
The 700sl is a carbon fiber hard tail, and it feels kind of rigid yet floaty at the same time, perfect for what I wanted, less springy feeling than the Ti MTBs I've ridden, but the bike is so much lighter than any MTB I've ever had. I don't ride that much in the woods, maybe 30-60 minutes at a time, and then I ride to and from the places where I MTB If I was spending 1-3 hour sessions banging trails, I'd get a full suspension. But for my riding, the hard tail works out fine. This bike is about as light as MTBs can get with stock high end components, under 20 lbs with pedals (real world weight I observed on my digital scale). The Bikes Direct Motobecane Fly Ti MTB that this replaced weighed more like 23.5+ lbs., and that was a light Ti frame with XTR components. So while this Scott is crazy light, it's built like a tank, you could ride it off Niagra falls and not break it. It's the lightest CF MTB frame out there, it has CF rims, That SRAM XX drivetrain that saves weight etc. The Syncros components from Scott all look like world class stuff that belongs on a bike of this caliber (stem, rims, hubs, seat post, bars, etc.). The brakes are Shimano XTR discs, and those are SO much better than the Avid brakes on my old bike that were like $300 brakes but always rubbed. These XTR brakes are far better.
Essentially the 700sl frame itself is a slightly dumbed down version (i.e., mellower, more normal angles that ordinary humans who aren't world class MTB racers can ride) of the super aggressive version of the bicycle that was ridden to the last two consecutive MTB XC World Cup titles, so it has racing credentials. The 1 x 11 Sram drivetrain seems to be the hot spec, all the high end MTB XC racing bikes have this spec now. The Fox front fork feels amazing, and the two stage lockout is very cool, you can lock it out or half way, which allows some boing, but not as much as when you have no lockout at all.
It will need more aggressive tires, it comes with weight weenie rubber to keep the spec weight down, I'll probably replace them with slightly fatter tires with more aggressive knobbies and maybe then the bike weighs a tick over 20lbs when you put it on the digital scale. You know the drill here. Had to do it with my last MTB from 2008 as well. A lot of the manufacturers do this.
Bottom line: light, fast, comfortable, just a very fun and cool bicycle, on road or off. State of the art for an MTB hard tail bicycle. Sophisticated engineering but a very simple setup, so you can just ride, and not worry about anything, including dropping your chain.
Got this bike in January, finally got it out in the woods a few times this past week. Riding impressions: I've spent 25+ years riding 26" wheel MTBs, so this is the first bike I've ridden with a larger wheel size. 29" has essentially replaced 26" wheels in recent years, this 700sl has 27.5" (650b) sized wheels. The first thing I noticed is how much easier tha 27.5" wheels roll over stuff, it really makes all the technical stuff half as hard. The idea with 27.5" is that the are supposed to confer most of the benefits of rollability of the 29" wheels, but they're much lighter and more agile. I've never ridden a 29er, so I can't compare them, but it seemed to me the first few times in the woods that the bike kind of felt like a 26" wheel MTB but it rolled over stuff much better, yet it still felt agile and flickable. That was my impression, that's what the magazine reviewers who ride everything generally say, they like it. Seemed to make the technical stuff like rock gardens, roots, etc. half as hard. Just rolls over stuff much better.
The 700sl is a carbon fiber hard tail, and it feels kind of rigid yet floaty at the same time, perfect for what I wanted, less springy feeling than the Ti MTBs I've ridden, but the bike is so much lighter than any MTB I've ever had. I don't ride that much in the woods, maybe 30-60 minutes at a time, and then I ride to and from the places where I MTB If I was spending 1-3 hour sessions banging trails, I'd get a full suspension. But for my riding, the hard tail works out fine. This bike is about as light as MTBs can get with stock high end components, under 20 lbs with pedals (real world weight I observed on my digital scale). The Bikes Direct Motobecane Fly Ti MTB that this replaced weighed more like 23.5+ lbs., and that was a light Ti frame with XTR components. So while this Scott is crazy light, it's built like a tank, you could ride it off Niagra falls and not break it. It's the lightest CF MTB frame out there, it has CF rims, That SRAM XX drivetrain that saves weight etc. The Syncros components from Scott all look like world class stuff that belongs on a bike of this caliber (stem, rims, hubs, seat post, bars, etc.). The brakes are Shimano XTR discs, and those are SO much better than the Avid brakes on my old bike that were like $300 brakes but always rubbed. These XTR brakes are far better.
Essentially the 700sl frame itself is a slightly dumbed down version (i.e., mellower, more normal angles that ordinary humans who aren't world class MTB racers can ride) of the super aggressive version of the bicycle that was ridden to the last two consecutive MTB XC World Cup titles, so it has racing credentials. The 1 x 11 Sram drivetrain seems to be the hot spec, all the high end MTB XC racing bikes have this spec now. The Fox front fork feels amazing, and the two stage lockout is very cool, you can lock it out or half way, which allows some boing, but not as much as when you have no lockout at all.
It will need more aggressive tires, it comes with weight weenie rubber to keep the spec weight down, I'll probably replace them with slightly fatter tires with more aggressive knobbies and maybe then the bike weighs a tick over 20lbs when you put it on the digital scale. You know the drill here. Had to do it with my last MTB from 2008 as well. A lot of the manufacturers do this.
Bottom line: light, fast, comfortable, just a very fun and cool bicycle, on road or off. State of the art for an MTB hard tail bicycle. Sophisticated engineering but a very simple setup, so you can just ride, and not worry about anything, including dropping your chain.
__________________
https://www.cotsiscad.com
https://www.cotsiscad.com
#2254
Friendship is Magic
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,988
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26436 Post(s)
Liked 10,396 Times
in
7,221 Posts
__________________
#2255
Friendship is Magic
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,988
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26436 Post(s)
Liked 10,396 Times
in
7,221 Posts
...yes. Even I saw Grease. Two or three times I think. #pinkladies
__________________
#2256
Friendship is Magic
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,988
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26436 Post(s)
Liked 10,396 Times
in
7,221 Posts
...sounds like you might be under the 60 pound barrier. #goodjob
__________________
#2257
Friendship is Magic
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,988
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26436 Post(s)
Liked 10,396 Times
in
7,221 Posts
#2259
Administrator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 33,016
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92
Mentioned: 325 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11978 Post(s)
Liked 6,675 Times
in
3,492 Posts
Naw, totally different personality ... if you're thinking what I think you're thinking.
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
#2260
Should Be More Popular
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 43,071
Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix
Mentioned: 560 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22614 Post(s)
Liked 8,935 Times
in
4,164 Posts
One of the guys I ride with is in Europe this week and is riding the Amstel Gold course today. They open the course up before (or more likely, after) the official race as some type of a gran fondo type event. Sounds like something to put on my (ever increasing) bucket list.
#2261
Super Modest
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 23,471
Bikes: Trek Emonda, Giant Propel, Colnago V3, Co-Motion Supremo, ICE VTX WC
Mentioned: 107 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10972 Post(s)
Liked 4,628 Times
in
2,126 Posts
I've got a buddy doing a similar thing next weekend except he's doing Liege-Bastogne-Liege.
__________________
Keep the chain tight!
#2262
Administrator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 33,016
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92
Mentioned: 325 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11978 Post(s)
Liked 6,675 Times
in
3,492 Posts
I like that helmet . . . I have to get me a new helmet.
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
Last edited by BillyD; 04-19-15 at 06:19 AM.
#2263
Administrator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 33,016
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92
Mentioned: 325 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11978 Post(s)
Liked 6,675 Times
in
3,492 Posts
Great bridge pics, Heathy. You captured all the classic views.
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
#2264
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,621
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
2015 Scott Scale 700SL: Pcad full review/trail test/riding impressions
Got this bike in January, finally got it out in the woods a few times this past week. Riding impressions: I've spent 25+ years riding 26" wheel MTBs, so this is the first bike I've ridden with a larger wheel size. 29" has essentially replaced 26" wheels in recent years, this 700sl has 27.5" (650b) sized wheels. The first thing I noticed is how much easier tha 27.5" wheels roll over stuff, it really makes all the technical stuff half as hard. The idea with 27.5" is that the are supposed to confer most of the benefits of rollability of the 29" wheels, but they're much lighter and more agile. I've never ridden a 29er, so I can't compare them, but it seemed to me the first few times in the woods that the bike kind of felt like a 26" wheel MTB but it rolled over stuff much better, yet it still felt agile and flickable. That was my impression, that's what the magazine reviewers who ride everything generally say, they like it. Seemed to make the technical stuff like rock gardens, roots, etc. half as hard. Just rolls over stuff much better.
The 700sl is a carbon fiber hard tail, and it feels kind of rigid yet floaty at the same time, perfect for what I wanted, less springy feeling than the Ti MTBs I've ridden, but the bike is so much lighter than any MTB I've ever had. I don't ride that much in the woods, maybe 30-60 minutes at a time, and then I ride to and from the places where I MTB If I was spending 1-3 hour sessions banging trails, I'd get a full suspension. But for my riding, the hard tail works out fine. This bike is about as light as MTBs can get with stock high end components, under 20 lbs with pedals (real world weight I observed on my digital scale). The Bikes Direct Motobecane Fly Ti MTB that this replaced weighed more like 23.5+ lbs., and that was a light Ti frame with XTR components. So while this Scott is crazy light, it's built like a tank, you could ride it off Niagra falls and not break it. It's the lightest CF MTB frame out there, it has CF rims, That SRAM XX drivetrain that saves weight etc. The Syncros components from Scott all look like world class stuff that belongs on a bike of this caliber (stem, rims, hubs, seat post, bars, etc.). The brakes are Shimano XTR discs, and those are SO much better than the Avid brakes on my old bike that were like $300 brakes but always rubbed. These XTR brakes are far better.
Essentially the 700sl frame itself is a slightly dumbed down version (i.e., mellower, more normal angles that ordinary humans who aren't world class MTB racers can ride) of the super aggressive version of the bicycle that was ridden to the last two consecutive MTB XC World Cup titles, so it has racing credentials. The 1 x 11 Sram drivetrain seems to be the hot spec, all the high end MTB XC racing bikes have this spec now. The Fox front fork feels amazing, and the two stage lockout is very cool, you can lock it out or half way, which allows some boing, but not as much as when you have no lockout at all.
It will need more aggressive tires, it comes with weight weenie rubber to keep the spec weight down, I'll probably replace them with slightly fatter tires with more aggressive knobbies and maybe then the bike weighs a tick over 20lbs when you put it on the digital scale. You know the drill here. Had to do it with my last MTB from 2008 as well. A lot of the manufacturers do this.
Bottom line: light, fast, comfortable, just a very fun and cool bicycle, on road or off. State of the art for an MTB hard tail bicycle. Sophisticated engineering but a very simple setup, so you can just ride, and not worry about anything, including dropping your chain.
Got this bike in January, finally got it out in the woods a few times this past week. Riding impressions: I've spent 25+ years riding 26" wheel MTBs, so this is the first bike I've ridden with a larger wheel size. 29" has essentially replaced 26" wheels in recent years, this 700sl has 27.5" (650b) sized wheels. The first thing I noticed is how much easier tha 27.5" wheels roll over stuff, it really makes all the technical stuff half as hard. The idea with 27.5" is that the are supposed to confer most of the benefits of rollability of the 29" wheels, but they're much lighter and more agile. I've never ridden a 29er, so I can't compare them, but it seemed to me the first few times in the woods that the bike kind of felt like a 26" wheel MTB but it rolled over stuff much better, yet it still felt agile and flickable. That was my impression, that's what the magazine reviewers who ride everything generally say, they like it. Seemed to make the technical stuff like rock gardens, roots, etc. half as hard. Just rolls over stuff much better.
The 700sl is a carbon fiber hard tail, and it feels kind of rigid yet floaty at the same time, perfect for what I wanted, less springy feeling than the Ti MTBs I've ridden, but the bike is so much lighter than any MTB I've ever had. I don't ride that much in the woods, maybe 30-60 minutes at a time, and then I ride to and from the places where I MTB If I was spending 1-3 hour sessions banging trails, I'd get a full suspension. But for my riding, the hard tail works out fine. This bike is about as light as MTBs can get with stock high end components, under 20 lbs with pedals (real world weight I observed on my digital scale). The Bikes Direct Motobecane Fly Ti MTB that this replaced weighed more like 23.5+ lbs., and that was a light Ti frame with XTR components. So while this Scott is crazy light, it's built like a tank, you could ride it off Niagra falls and not break it. It's the lightest CF MTB frame out there, it has CF rims, That SRAM XX drivetrain that saves weight etc. The Syncros components from Scott all look like world class stuff that belongs on a bike of this caliber (stem, rims, hubs, seat post, bars, etc.). The brakes are Shimano XTR discs, and those are SO much better than the Avid brakes on my old bike that were like $300 brakes but always rubbed. These XTR brakes are far better.
Essentially the 700sl frame itself is a slightly dumbed down version (i.e., mellower, more normal angles that ordinary humans who aren't world class MTB racers can ride) of the super aggressive version of the bicycle that was ridden to the last two consecutive MTB XC World Cup titles, so it has racing credentials. The 1 x 11 Sram drivetrain seems to be the hot spec, all the high end MTB XC racing bikes have this spec now. The Fox front fork feels amazing, and the two stage lockout is very cool, you can lock it out or half way, which allows some boing, but not as much as when you have no lockout at all.
It will need more aggressive tires, it comes with weight weenie rubber to keep the spec weight down, I'll probably replace them with slightly fatter tires with more aggressive knobbies and maybe then the bike weighs a tick over 20lbs when you put it on the digital scale. You know the drill here. Had to do it with my last MTB from 2008 as well. A lot of the manufacturers do this.
Bottom line: light, fast, comfortable, just a very fun and cool bicycle, on road or off. State of the art for an MTB hard tail bicycle. Sophisticated engineering but a very simple setup, so you can just ride, and not worry about anything, including dropping your chain.
Not since the ten commandments has this much divine verbosity been put in writing.
#2265
Super Modest
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 23,471
Bikes: Trek Emonda, Giant Propel, Colnago V3, Co-Motion Supremo, ICE VTX WC
Mentioned: 107 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10972 Post(s)
Liked 4,628 Times
in
2,126 Posts
#2266
Administrator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 33,016
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92
Mentioned: 325 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11978 Post(s)
Liked 6,675 Times
in
3,492 Posts
God help us.
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
#2268
Mostly Harmless
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chittenango, NY
Posts: 56,613
Bikes: Have two wheels
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13725 Post(s)
Liked 4,535 Times
in
2,511 Posts
#2269
Coffin Dodger
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 2,138
Bikes: Motobecane Vent Noir, Lynskey R345, Serotta Nova Special X
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 794 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times
in
143 Posts
It was a Heathpackian style post with personal insight and passion.
Additionally there was no insult to the community at large, most unusual, some need to check the area for "pods"!
Additionally there was no insult to the community at large, most unusual, some need to check the area for "pods"!
#2270
Mostly Harmless
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chittenango, NY
Posts: 56,613
Bikes: Have two wheels
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13725 Post(s)
Liked 4,535 Times
in
2,511 Posts
#2271
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,520
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 354 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20810 Post(s)
Liked 9,456 Times
in
4,672 Posts
#2272
Administrator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 33,016
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92
Mentioned: 325 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11978 Post(s)
Liked 6,675 Times
in
3,492 Posts
. . . or the rug.
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
#2273
Friendship is Magic
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,988
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26436 Post(s)
Liked 10,396 Times
in
7,221 Posts
#2274
Has a magic bike
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 12,590
Bikes: 2018 Scott Spark, 2015 Fuji Norcom Straight, 2014 BMC GF01, 2013 Trek Madone
Mentioned: 699 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4456 Post(s)
Liked 425 Times
in
157 Posts
We started by riding up Kings Mt Rd from Woodside, it's about 5 miles to the top with mostly 6-7-8% grades, not too steep. Regrouped at the top for a 9 mile descent down to the Pacific Ocean on Tunitas Creek Rd, which is very narrow and twisty. The shade on this road is pretty deep and the only negative was that there were lots of cyclists ascending, many of them in dark jerseys so very hard to see, then you'd come around a blind corner only to find one climbing on your side of the road. That part was a little nerve-wracking, to tell the truth.
Then we regrouped at the bottom, at a little store called the Bicycle Hut, which is a honor system store for cyclists. Cute place to get water or a snack. Then we popped down to the PCH and turned around and did the long climb back out. Some steep stuff on that- 10 to 11%, but it was such a treat to be climbing in the shade, I did not care how steep it was. . Then finally a nice descent back down Kings Mt Rd.
I didn't take any new pics, but here's the ones from the other day, so nobody has to scroll back.
It was a great day because prior to meeting up for the ride, I got together with an old resident-mate of mine. We lived together for two years during our residencies, that is a crazy intense time of your life. She lives 10 min from the ride start, suggested breakfast at a restaurant one block from the ride start. Great to catch up with her, it's been 2 years. Post-ride, we cyclists went to lunch at the same place.
This weekend was my first face-to-face meeting with coach, he is a great guy. There is not much more to say than that. Knows what he's doing as a coach, but he's also just a great person. Really enjoyed his other athletes too, just a great group of people. Once again, I have had great cycling luck.
Late brunch, then we're heading home. It's been a really nice trip.
H
Last edited by Heathpack; 04-19-15 at 08:47 AM.
#2275
Idiot Emeritus
Heathie, you said it all! It was a terrific ride. Racer Ex is a great guy isn't he? Oh, you didn't mention SAG! Yes, we had SAG the whole way (that was a treat in itself). Thank him again for me, too, please!
__________________
"Can you add a signature line please? The lack of words makes me think you are being held hostage and being told to be quiet"
"Can you add a signature line please? The lack of words makes me think you are being held hostage and being told to be quiet"