Finally - Light Chinabike ride review...Ford ain't an Edsel
#51
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That has to be one of the most ridiculous suggestions I've ever read in Bike Forums. I mean you can't be serious. Here's a serious suggestion. Some scam artist in China hacked the computers at Cervelo and got all their files. Then they invested a few thousand dollars to start pumping out cheap ass fake R5's, send them out to multiple distributors in China and made their money back in a couple of weeks. "Workswell", DH Gate, Ali Baba, King Fu Hong Ching, they're all selling the same thing as you got. Most likely made in the same building by kids. I guess if you have to choose one, go with the place with the nicest set up website. If you like you're bike I'm happy for you. But to have the thought that your frame may have some type of legitimate connection to Cervelo is just........ mind boggling.
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If this is truly a copy of a 2013 Cervelo frame, it is already 3 year old tech. Is there any possibility that Cervelo either gave up the rights to the molds or sold it to them?
Maybe, they were outsourced to continue to make frames for warranty repair or replacement. How long do bike companies need to continue to make replacement parts? This might be a way to keep costs down on oldr model's parts.
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Or maybe Cervelo moved on and expected the molds to be destroyed (and told the company to destroy them) but didn't actually have someone there to observe the destruction, so they didn't see when an employee "destroyed" them by walking them out to the back of his truck and over to his uncle's factory where he started working the next day as a supervisor.
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#53
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I just see so many reviews where the person says this bike is "faster" than their other bike, or some other bike is faster, but not by much. I've never understood that descriptor for a bike. It may be more aero so it's less effort to go fast, or somehow more fun so that you want to go fast and don't perceive the same effort, but I just don't understand how bikes can be inherrently fast when people describe them as that way. Any bike you put under my ass will automatically not be fast.
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but its ..... made in italy fatto a mano
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Who you callin' a fat man, Willis?
#57
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That has to be one of the most ridiculous suggestions I've ever read in Bike Forums. I mean you can't be serious. Here's a serious suggestion. Some scam artist in China hacked the computers at Cervelo and got all their files. Then they invested a few thousand dollars to start pumping out cheap ass fake R5's, send them out to multiple distributors in China and made their money back in a couple of weeks. "Workswell", DH Gate, Ali Baba, King Fu Hong Ching, they're all selling the same thing as you got. Most likely made in the same building by kids. I guess if you have to choose one, go with the place with the nicest set up website. If you like you're bike I'm happy for you. But to have the thought that your frame may have some type of legitimate connection to Cervelo is just........ mind boggling.
inrng : who made your bike
There is a reason that people continue to speculate about where their frame was made. If it is the most ridiculous thing you've ever read on BF, you haven't even grazed the surface.
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Quote from the linked article... "My guess is that the fakes are being made in the same factory as the genuine products but on the sly, either by the factory owner for extra income or by employees when the boss isn’t looking; or using old molds no longer in use in the plant."
I didn't think you could do it with bikes, but maybe you can....
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People are also assuming that the 066 is being sold as a "Cervelo" fake...which it's not. Nowhere on Workswell's site does it mention that the frame has anything to do with Cervelo. WW looks to be the manufacturer of the frames they sell on their site. Everyone else looks to be a trading company selling their frames. If someone buys the frame, paints the frame and sells it as a Cervelo...well that's on them and not the manufacturer.
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Well actually all of the companies that are getting their products bootlegged in China are letting it happen because they are greedy and choose to outsource production to the lowest bidder. If they chose to manufacture in the USA or someplace else with better controls they MIGHT have a better chance at securing their products. But I suspect that they make so much more profit manufacturing in China that it offsets any losses they get from counterfeiting.
Second we've set up a situation where a US company can't use lower priced labor even it wanted too. So we outsource jobs.
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Yes it is. The thing is...nobody on BF is an insider (at least the ones posting here)...so nobody here can say where these frames come from. It is possible that whoever these frame makers are...are using old molds left from previous customers. We'll never know if that is the case though.
People are also assuming that the 066 is being sold as a "Cervelo" fake...which it's not. Nowhere on Workswell's site does it mention that the frame has anything to do with Cervelo. WW looks to be the manufacturer of the frames they sell on their site. Everyone else looks to be a trading company selling their frames. If someone buys the frame, paints the frame and sells it as a Cervelo...well that's on them and not the manufacturer.
People are also assuming that the 066 is being sold as a "Cervelo" fake...which it's not. Nowhere on Workswell's site does it mention that the frame has anything to do with Cervelo. WW looks to be the manufacturer of the frames they sell on their site. Everyone else looks to be a trading company selling their frames. If someone buys the frame, paints the frame and sells it as a Cervelo...well that's on them and not the manufacturer.
IMO, knowing how a bike will ride only comes from experienced riders riding it. Once the R&D has been completed and 1 frame has been produced, copying it is a pretty straight forward process. And the copy will be as good as it's meant to be. If they want it to be an exact replica indistinguishable from the original, that can done and if it's just suppose to look the same.........then that's what it will be.
Products seem to just phase out, slowly being replaced by whatever is new for the next year and the year after that. Tooling is expensive, out of the hundreds of tools I don't recal ever having the customer request evidence of the tool being destroyed once it's be obsoleted. The company I work for has unquestionable ethics and we would never produce unauthorized products from a customers tooling for resale but it could easily be done.
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Now I doubt the been made by same people/factory/tooling. The manufacturers building for a major brand have to abide by their contract, at a minimum they would loose the contract from all brands if they ever violated it.
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Two things. One is US companies aren't being greedy with overseas outsourcing. Rather each needs to stay competitive and one company manufacturing here isn't competitive.
Second we've set up a situation where a US company can't use lower priced labor even it wanted too. So we outsource jobs.
Second we've set up a situation where a US company can't use lower priced labor even it wanted too. So we outsource jobs.
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Fascinating posts from dksix and hazet.
What's most telling however is rpen's original post. He is quite obviously underwhelmed. Now, the expenditure was hardly overwhelming ($500). However, given the bargain basement price, and incredibly low weight of the frame and fork, I would think he'd be thrilled with the price vs. performance ratio.
The fact that he isn't suggests that the amount of additional value offered by the highest end, lightest carbon frames (assuming his frame is comparable to an actual cervelo) compared to less expensive, slightly heavier frames is somewhere between marginal and non-existent.
Would a cervelo owner be willing to buy one of these workswell frames and compare?
What's most telling however is rpen's original post. He is quite obviously underwhelmed. Now, the expenditure was hardly overwhelming ($500). However, given the bargain basement price, and incredibly low weight of the frame and fork, I would think he'd be thrilled with the price vs. performance ratio.
The fact that he isn't suggests that the amount of additional value offered by the highest end, lightest carbon frames (assuming his frame is comparable to an actual cervelo) compared to less expensive, slightly heavier frames is somewhere between marginal and non-existent.
Would a cervelo owner be willing to buy one of these workswell frames and compare?
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Even if they were hand made in Fiji by the blind ladies of church... It doesn't take much investment for them to buy one original take all dimensions, cut it in half, 3d scan, model and use CAD to make new molds with new adjustments.
Now I doubt the been made by same people/factory/tooling. The manufacturers building for a major brand have to abide by their contract, at a minimum they would loose the contract from all brands if they ever violated it.
Now I doubt the been made by same people/factory/tooling. The manufacturers building for a major brand have to abide by their contract, at a minimum they would loose the contract from all brands if they ever violated it.
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#73
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Fascinating posts from dksix and hazet.
What's most telling however is rpen's original post. He is quite obviously underwhelmed. Now, the expenditure was hardly overwhelming ($500). However, given the bargain basement price, and incredibly low weight of the frame and fork, I would think he'd be thrilled with the price vs. performance ratio.
The fact that he isn't suggests that the amount of additional value offered by the highest end, lightest carbon frames (assuming his frame is comparable to an actual cervelo) compared to less expensive, slightly heavier frames is somewhere between marginal and non-existent.
Would a cervelo owner be willing to buy one of these workswell frames and compare?
What's most telling however is rpen's original post. He is quite obviously underwhelmed. Now, the expenditure was hardly overwhelming ($500). However, given the bargain basement price, and incredibly low weight of the frame and fork, I would think he'd be thrilled with the price vs. performance ratio.
The fact that he isn't suggests that the amount of additional value offered by the highest end, lightest carbon frames (assuming his frame is comparable to an actual cervelo) compared to less expensive, slightly heavier frames is somewhere between marginal and non-existent.
Would a cervelo owner be willing to buy one of these workswell frames and compare?
Last edited by rpenmanparker; 10-14-15 at 06:24 PM.
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Even if they were hand made in Fiji by the blind ladies of church... It doesn't take much investment for them to buy one original take all dimensions, cut it in half, 3d scan, model and use CAD to make new molds with new adjustments.
Now I doubt the been made by same people/factory/tooling. The manufacturers building for a major brand have to abide by their contract, at a minimum they would loose the contract from all brands if they ever violated it.
Now I doubt the been made by same people/factory/tooling. The manufacturers building for a major brand have to abide by their contract, at a minimum they would loose the contract from all brands if they ever violated it.
If you read my post directly before your post you will see I stated copying it to whatever degree desired isn't even hard but we don't know which is the case. I would need to know more about who made the frame original frame to really lean either direction. There are small shops producing extreme high end products mostly by hand under the watchful eye of skilled craftsmen as well a state of the art factories making part by the 1000's. It's more likely that the tooling from a low production count such as the Cervelo ends up being used than something like a Giant Devy.
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Fascinating posts from dksix and hazet.
What's most telling however is rpen's original post. He is quite obviously underwhelmed. Now, the expenditure was hardly overwhelming ($500). However, given the bargain basement price, and incredibly low weight of the frame and fork, I would think he'd be thrilled with the price vs. performance ratio.
The fact that he isn't suggests that the amount of additional value offered by the highest end, lightest carbon frames (assuming his frame is comparable to an actual cervelo) compared to less expensive, slightly heavier frames is somewhere between marginal and non-existent.
Would a cervelo owner be willing to buy one of these workswell frames and compare?
What's most telling however is rpen's original post. He is quite obviously underwhelmed. Now, the expenditure was hardly overwhelming ($500). However, given the bargain basement price, and incredibly low weight of the frame and fork, I would think he'd be thrilled with the price vs. performance ratio.
The fact that he isn't suggests that the amount of additional value offered by the highest end, lightest carbon frames (assuming his frame is comparable to an actual cervelo) compared to less expensive, slightly heavier frames is somewhere between marginal and non-existent.
Would a cervelo owner be willing to buy one of these workswell frames and compare?
I'm not saying it is. But your suggestion without proof isn't valid.